If you missed the Zoom discussion hosted by the South Lyon Library with author Marney Keenan, about her book The Snow Killings, you have other opportunities:
Monday, Nov. 9 at 7p.m. Clinton Township Library
Wednesday, Nov. 11 at 7 p.m. Baldwin Public Library in Birmingham
Wednesday, Jan. 13 at 7 p.m. Troy Public Library.
Tuesday, Jan. 19, at 6 p.m. Bridgman Public Library
Wednesday, Jan. 20 at 7 p.m. Huntington Woods Public Library
Wednesday, Feb. 10 at 6:30 p.m. Milford Public Library
Thursday, Feb. 18 at 7 p.m. Royal Oak Library
Mark your calendars and sign up for notices and for Marney’s blog at https://www.thesnowkillings.com/. Zoom links will be provided at her website as the dates approach.
If you know of a library or bookstore ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD interested in hosting a Zoom presentation on The Snow Killings, let Marney know at marney@marneykeenan.com.
It was so good, she is a true professional.
Sending well wishes to your Dad, you and your family. 💕🙏🏻😷
Can someone print the following and give to Marney on one of her zoom meets;
https://catherinebroad.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/hastings-polygraph-august-2009.pdf
I and a few others here would like know how on earth Hastings passed the polygraph when this is written by a professional polygrapher from Georgia and confirmed by his boss as conclusions. This was right out of the FOIA papers. Hastings has been ignored and brushed aside long enough!
I agree with the comment. Hastings polygraph is inconclusive. Why in Gods name can’t the people running this investigation see that if he didn’t do it , he knows who did. It’s obvious there’s something wrong with John Hastings . Is the mental health system protecting him? When was this guy first put into the system? Way too many coincidences with him. I wish Polly was still alive, she could have identified him.
This fucker lived a stone’s throw from Busch. Same age, same kind of loser. Pedophile cop, Bloomfield Township/Village PD officer Richard McNamee, who showed up at the Busch house for the “wellness check,” lived 2 minutes from both of them. All coincidences? I don’t think so. John walked in 1977 because the task force was a fucked up mess. He walked in 1992 because he was too close to the Busch mess to dig too deeply. Helen didn’t help the cause. But we are where we are. Nothing to see here. But seriously, the guy sweet-talking Helen with freak-show talk about the OCCK lives right around the corner from Busch? If he wasn’t involved, he had knowledge and kept his mouth shut. He is as bad as the rest of these degenerates.
Cathy, I always thought the scum bag that did these horrendous crimes, lived in the vicinity of the abductions. Hastings and Busch lived within a few miles of Hunter Maple. There were a few witnesses to your brothers abduction . Doug Wilson, said he seen Tim talking to a man in his 20-30 , athletic build, 5’10 170lbs, long dark shaggy hair. Dark complexion. That isn’t Sloan, Lamborghine, Busch or Gunnels. That sounds like a John Hastings or a Greg Greene to me. Helen did drop the ball here. Very disappointed in hearing about that. That still doesn’t clear that bastard. He’s 100% lying about not knowing Busch. Same damn age, doing the same type of work and living within walking distance. I wonder what this psycho drove back then?
(INO) In My Opinion
Marney uncovering the two Doug Wilson hypnosis composite sketches is the biggest break in this case in the last few years. How these two sketches were kept from the public all of this time is an outcry on it’s own. The two sketches match McName & Hastings to an exact tee. Most composite sketches established in crime history don’t match as well these two do!
So here we may possibly have the mystery connection to Busch thru the association of these two men (McName & Hastings) Where one is dead and one still alive (as far as we know).
But it’s a dead end regardless because here we are again with the Hastings name. So rather than go down that path we’re back to reflecting on Helen’s credentials and her behavior because for years she was the only one on the internet documenting the case and in her cooky way. she felt she owned the case. Especially after being scuffed at all of those years. So her interactions with police are not good and never were and got even worse.
And of course we have that historic polygraph test. A polygraph test that raised all kinds of red flags to the people conducting it in Georgia (As proven by a couple FOIA pages that got thru the system). And I would like to add that Mr. Cory Williams wasn’t even present when this polygraph was actually conducted but evidently he still insist that Hastings was cleared by it based on Marney’s library Q&A session recently. Someone go get that damn DVD that documents this polygraph test that’s stated in the FOIA papers!!! I will bet that no one from Michigan has ever reviewed it!
So what gives here? Can someone please correct me with what I wrote above? Why does this look so insanely nuts? Please post as I will accept a reasonable explanation by anyone.
Things have went quiet on here for this one.
Look folks, I don’t have anything against Marney or Cory Williams as they both have done a great deal to this case uncovering many things about Chris Busch and especially Marney recently with the Doug Wilson sketches.
However to make a claim that Hastings passed the polygraph is simply not true. It does not do this case any good to present false information. Although it might have not been intentional by anyone directly. That paper shown above with the box highlights shows major complications with the polygraph at the very least which was obviously ignored on Michigan’s end. And no where in the entire FOIA papers does it indicate he actually ‘passed’ the polygraph and probably didn’t. I’m guessing that Marney is going by Cory William’s word on it and I must ask if Cory is going by Detective Gray’s word on it? How much do we trust Gray’s word on anything now? I sure don’t!
Indications show that neither were present when the polygraph was conducted by Georgia staff as they were returning to Michigan. Someone needs to explain these polygraph conclusions and base on Cathy’s posts it appears anyway that no one has ever done so. I think Cathy deserves an explanation what is written in those pages in regards to Hastings polygraph and anything short of that is unacceptable!
The real truth of this polygraph may be documented on a DVD that was stated in the FOIA papers to exist from Georgia staff. I will speculate that this was never viewed by Mr Williams or Mr. Gray or anyone else for that matter and might have even been discarded like many things involving this case. Maybe someone needs to try contacting the Georgia staff that conducted this polygraph to try to get to the truth? They might have an extra copy of DVD in their files or other records. Would doing an FOIA directly to them be practical? Can someone that does FOIA requests assist in this?
Clearly he did not “pass,” based on the documents in the FOIA response. This cannot even be debated. If you want to call it inconclusive, fine. I remind everyone that Busch and Greene “passed” their polygraphs, too.
Duncan (polygrapher for GBI) said he firmly believed John was involved in some way, even if he just had knowledge. “DUNCAN DID, HOWEVER, STATE AGAIN THAT THERE IS NO QUESTION IN HIS MIND HE WAS INVOLVED IN THESE MURDERS.”
Is this polygrapher from Georgia, who is not tainted by any of the Helen bullshit wrong? The MSP polygraphers don’t have a real strong track record in this case.
WTF????
Cathy;
Along with this.
Any idea who was responsible for the previous DNA (Swab) test of Hastings stated in the FOIA? Was it actually Williams or Gray who sent it to the lab for testing? Many seem to think he was cleared from it. I would be real curious if it was ever really pursued & completed. Or maybe just hearsay like this polygraph?
Kind of reminds me of a cop telling Alpena Witness they interviewed the Big Boy staff during the investigation of John. Where he found out later thru connections that it never took place.
What if all rocks surrounding Helen were never looked under and they were all just blow off hearsays? There’s just too much bullshit to needle thru to ever get to the truth on any of this. What a fuckin mess !!!!!
DNA cannot be used to “clear” anyone in this case. Thus far the MSP and FBI labs have not managed to discover any autosomal DNA on the evidence collected from the clothing and bodies of four children who were held captive a combined total of some 33 days. This is not because the lone killer washed and pressed their clothing and wore gloves and a condom. It’s because even for the times the evidence collection and storage in this case was pathetic. ME Robert Sillery, anyone?! When the high-ups in this investigation decided their way of making this go away was the right way, they made sure the files and evidence were a mess. The only other conclusion, and it is no better, is that the MSP is one of the sloppiest investigating agencies in the country in one of the biggest unsolved serial killing cases in the country.
There is mtDNA and Y-str DNA in this case. http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/dna/principles.html#:~:text=Inside the nucleus, there are,have the same autosomal DNA.
So this doesn’t match the list of 17 (or however many) men they have a DNA swab on; under the circumstances of this case, it doesn’t mean one or more of these men wasn’t involved in one or more of the killings. It just means LE moves on and won’t look deeper.
Likewise, an alleged “passed” polygraph in a case that no doubt involved sociopathic killers cannot be used to “clear” a suspect in the face of other serious evidence that was conveniently ignored as the police “moved on.” If there were multiple participants, even an alibi for one of them for one or more of the killings or time periods the kids were held captive, is inadequate to “clear” these freaks.
This case remains open over four decades later because police back in the day CLEARED or RULED OUT the killer or killers. The fall-back position is hey, he passed a polygraph. And now, after the MSP failed to properly preserve and store evidence in this case, they get to say hey, no DNA match to our shitty samples! Gaslighting 101.
I’d like to know about this fruit cakes “ Hastings” DNA as well. Just because Helen fabricated some of the confessions, doesn’t mean you discredit John Hastings. There’s too many coincidences with him. The composites being the main one. Has anyone seen John Hastings Facebook page? His interests are cold cases. He has not one friend on his list that he actually knows. He’s a late 60’s man with a bunch of stripper type 20 yr olds on his list. DISCREDIT THIS GUY? I remember reading a cop told his sister Mary that he knew John was the killer and her reply was “ prove it”. Last I heard he was in a mental institution in Florida. He should be under a microscope
And let’s be real about men being “ruled out” by DNA. All this means is that the DNA doesn’t match the mtDNA or presumably the Y-str DNA samples they have. If multiple people were involved in these crimes, the fact that the DNA doesn’t match the limited DNA the MSP claims to have in this case, is not conclusive. “Cleared”?! Yeah, right.
Cathy; I see what you’re saying in regards to DNA and although I don’t fully understand it, my point is that Gray or whomever are stating John was cleared by DNA. I still wonder if there was even any lab work done to back up his word? It’s one thing to discuss the value and validity to the whole DNA thing. Here we are discussing a polygraph test from 11 years ago for god’s sake and it appears anyway that because Gray personally does not like Helen, (Further proven by Marney’s book w short section on Helen) that the final polygraph conclusion written seems to have been completely ignored by everyone involved. As zany as that sounds but seems to be right in print in the documents, I tend to think that this DNA is just make believe talk where there is not even any paper work to prove or back up it was ever done. Gray has misled people already about Jill’s bike and finger prints, DNA done on animal hair samples, MSP file system that was suppose to be fully digitally restored and all the other BS.
For Duncan to state that there is no question in his mind that Hastings was involved some way with these murders speaks volumes to me. He claims his boss concluded the same thing while he was there during polygraph as well. (Whoever he is) It sounds more revealing than a failed polygraph itself to me. Where am I seeing this wrong?
What signs did they see? Did he maybe confess to some of this? I was thinking that someone from the Hastings family would eventually crack and confess and reveal what they know. Sounds like John H. might have done just that or came close to it but no one from Michigan was there to witness it. How can anyone in law enforcement (Including Mr. Williams) walk away from this with no further explanation or further investigation? It just completely boggles the mind. I still have to wonder if there is more revealing information on that DVD. May even go as far as video of him confessing to the damn thing!!!
Mr or Mrs. Anonymous I feel the same way as you do. There’s so much more to this sick bastard John Hastings. He’s been in and out of mental institutions for a lot of his adult life. Has he admitted to his psychiatrist? Can’t he be tried because he’s a mental case?
I’ve looked into each sibling . Checked each siblings Social media and there’s absolutely nothing mentioned about their brother John. Why are they hiding him? Don’t mention so people don’t look into him?
Listen, if you want to go by witnesses and facts . Hastings is the only suspect that I’ve seen that looks like Doug Wilson’s hypnotized composite. This shit has been dragged for WAY too long. It’s beyond time for this case to be solved and it can be.
Mary is the one they should be giving the polygraph and questioning. I wonder if she will ever admit to her associates at Hartfield Lanes (Where Kristine was abducted) or some of the other ones behind all the religious ones? John may be weird but Mike is the one that should really be traced back to 1977 time range. Weird how he just disappeared around 1977 to no where. Talk about bizarre, it’s an understatement for him. I wonder if Mike got called upon in the latest West Wing reunion special? Being a star of the show, you’d think he would be the first. Yeah the Hastings are extremely weird. The Adams family on steroids!!!!!
Mike graduated from Seaholm in 78 and then took off to Do missionary work. Then he went to Arizona for college. Mike looked like he got off a plane from Brazil back then. The family like to advertise their political and religious views full hilt. I believe Mike as a kid delivered news papers to the Busch residents.
JN;
As both you and I seem to know that there is much more here than just a matching face to the OCCK police sketches and a polygraph test that seemed to turn sour in Georgia some 11-12 years ago.
I’m after the truth where ever that takes us but for right now what does it take to convince an author like Marney that there is much more than what she wrote in her book about John H? And most certainly her suggesting that John passed the poly is pure bull.
Why can’t Mr Williams be straight with her or Cathy or anyone else for that matter? It’s strange that when one does a zoom up screen freeze of Cory in the Children of the Snow documentary that there is a paper in his type writer with Helen Dagner’s name right on it but they refuse to even mention her name or her suspect during the entire documentary.
I’m sure not the best at dealing with this or make it sugar coded for everyone to read but I think the avoidance is one reason why this case is still not solved.