Listen to Marney Keenan discuss her book, The Snow Killings: Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation, on the podcast William Ramsey Investigates:
https://www.spreaker.com/user/williamramsey/author-marney-keenan-discusses-her-book-
I will keep pushing for an outside agency to look at this investigation. The odds of someone stepping up are very slim. If I have to, I will settle for exposing these dirty bastards anywhere and everywhere possible. So listen to this interesting discussion of just how wrong this investigation went and how obviously dirty the Michigan State Police and Oakland County law enforcement are. I’m not even going to say “were.” They are still at it and those who should expose this monstrous injustice (and all related injustices, including thwarting FOIA requirements and tampering with evidence) and don’t–welcome to a very dirty club.
Great job
I really hope for your family this is solved, but have to tell you I don’t think the type of conspiracies you discuss are probable. Your brother talks in the Kill Jar about cops killing an art dealer and covering it up, with zero evidence. No conspiracy involving this many people over generations is realistic. There is zero known evidence linking Christopher Busch, despicable as he was, with these crimes. Lot of innuendo, coincidence, etc, no evidence. Nor anyone else other than Sloan and Gunnels. Barring new evidence or a confession, the best bet now is likely familia DNA opening something up.
Oh, Hal, if only you knew the truth…the only reason this case is not solved on paper, is because the papers proving it have long ago disappeared.
Well if they’re still trying to make the victim’s minor marks on their wrists (police reports) line up to Busch’s bloody ropes (Would make major scars), it’s never going to be solved. As they say, you can’t push a rope because the physics doesn’t allow it.
The responding c
I block people who use different names, same email. Last chance.
I use my middle name, people can trace if full name given. Up to you.
You are so polite.
Not really.
I spewed my coffee when I read this Cathy LOL!!
Sheri, I suppose you have evidence of the papers? This reminds me of the vast conspiracy of the Kennedy assassination. Dark forces, massive cover ups that never leak after decades, trying to disprove negatives. And of course when asked about the evidence, it’s all disappeared. Dark forces, big money, etc. Please tell me a single piece of actual evidence that connects Christopher Busch to Timmy King. Police haven’t charged anyone for a simple reason, they don’t have evidence. Of course there are dishonest cops, but do you actually think there are hundreds of them over generations that are conspiring to keep ‘it’ hidden? All work on this case should be on familial DNA on hair samples. You and your ilk just set the investigation back.
Why don’t you just drop this and find something else to do? Maybe they need a counselor at Fox Island.
Cathy, please reduce the agida this guy is giving us and block these ridiculous claims?
Bitamoney, not sure the purpose of personal attacks. What happened at N Fox was an outrage, and I don’t appreciate the nasty comment. Follow the facts – DNA
Do you know the facts?
Do you know the actual evidence in this case? DNA, automobile, one description. None of the three point to Busch. Those are the facts. If you think I am being argumentative I apologize.
Here’s the deal, Hal/John–I went and checked your user info because I don’t appreciate you referring to other readers as “ilk.” You made your points all day today as near as I can tell. As for setting the investigation back–what investigation????? It’s pretty simple. Weigh in if you want, but don’t be a dick.
Ok. Don’t appreciate that comment. I’ll drop off. Really hope you get resolution on this. Was just offering an opinion. Take care.
Thanks for this, Cathy. I’m in the process of listening to it now but I paused it to bring up a detail, one of many, that is still unclear. Remember a few years ago you commented at length that the “cleaned up kids” was a myth? Marney is here again stating that the bodies were immaculately clean even to the point of clean fingernails. Is this true or not true? I read again recently that Mark’s clothing was full of rodent hair etc. The salient point is whether the killer did go through the trouble of completely cleaning the bodies and clothing. Thanks
Having read (and posted on this blog) the autopsy reports in this case, they support only the conclusion that the killer(s) were somewhat “forensically aware” and that attempts were made to clean these kids up so the killer(s) could evade capture.
What is complete bullshit is that this was an OCD-crazed maniac who washed the clothing and pressed it, eradicating all evidence and any chance for the poor task force to solve these crimes. “The Babysitter” bullshit.
If you read the narrative report of the Lamborgine/Lawson investigation, numerous victims tell of being thrown in showers and bathtubs after being raped at pedophile parties. In her book, Marney Keenan describes the use by pedophiles of enemas to destroy evidence of rape in their victims. Furthermore, if you keep a kid for 19 days, you might end up washing her clothing. Just like you end up having to feed them to keep them alive for whatever monstrous shit you are engaging in.
Mark’s body was covered by a dirty blanket by police. (Nice work.). His autopsy notes say in all caps SPERM PRESENT but then, surprise–there isn’t! His underclothing had been worn for a number of days (therefore was not freshly washed). There was blood on his clothing from a head wound. A hair was found on his body that allegedly matched a hair found in a car owned by Arch Sloan.
Fibers and animal hairs were found on Jill. Kristine’s shirt was tied in the back instead of the front, meaning someone else had probably dressed her. Her pants, still salt-stained (and therefore unwashed) were tucked into her boots; something her Mom said Kris never did. Dr. Sillery says sperm found–but then wait, no sperm! Yet a Y-str DNA sample was relatively recently developed from her autopsy kit being rerun in the past few years. A hair with a mtDNA profile that cannot be ruled out as matching Vince Gunnels was found on her jacket.
Dr. Spitz describes Tim’s body as “almost clinically clean”–there is no sign of semen or lubricant. His nails were cut–little wonder, I’m sure he put up a fight and he had long nails. He had clearly been washed, yet Spitz describes the condition of his scalp as having not been recently washed. And, despite the description of “almost clinically clean,” a hair is found on Tim’s genitals and another is found in his nasal cavity. The hair from the genital region–he did not have pubic hair–allegedly matched the hair found on Mark and a hair found in old Archie’s ride. Fibers and animal hairs were found on him, too.
This podcast interviewer seemed to have done his homework and clearly carefully read Marney’s book. But everyone goes back to “the Babysitter” bullshit because that’s what got floated back in the day. Come to Birmingham! Even our serial killers babysit the victims and clean them up before placing them, funereal fashion (more shit), on display outside.
That and the fucking bloody ropes. I will blog again tomorrow or Tuesday on that. I will include the awkward, tortured affidavit Paul Walton manipulated out of David Metzger a few years ago. Here’s what’s important about those ropes. They were clearly part of the Busch death scene diorama, just like the shotgun shell and the drawing of a screaming boy and other things. It was obvious enough that the Bloomfield Hills PD called the task force to come take a gander, so they can all piss their pants together and evaluate this scene. (Not forensically, of course.) “Just another suicide that no one gives a shit about,” right?
Metzger says in his 1978 state lab report that these ropes should be kept in evidence as they may have to be evaluated again. They, and the original drawing of the screaming boy from Busch’s bedroom wall, go missing. WTF?
But people love the Babysitter image, with this POS ironing a kid’s clothing right before he lovingly puts a hand over their mouth and nose and holds it there for the 6 or more minutes it takes to kill them and then “gives them back to society.” And bloody ropes are a good image for a book cover.
Catherine;
My heart goers out to you and always has. I respect the loyalty of Cory Williams and his dedication to solving the case and I truly admire Marney for her support and research that she has done.
However, these bloody ropes are not an accurate representation of the case if there are no wounds on the victims reflecting such. It’s as simple as that. It is misleading to what are real facts and traces left on the victims and there is no other way to look at it. Why we must keep pretending something is there if it isn’t.
Are there wounds on the victims that reflect these bloody ropes?
No. See my comment of. A few hours ago. End of discussion.
Cathy, please tell me what posting of yours talks about the Lamborgine etc investigative report where victims get thrown in the bath etc. I read everything I can of what you post but I don’t remember any victim coming forward.
Thank you for clarifying the cleaned/not cleaned.
You will have to read the information embedded as links in the following posts: https://wordpress.com/post/catherinebroad.blog/5172; https://wordpress.com/post/catherinebroad.blog/5177; https://wordpress.com/post/catherinebroad.blog/5181; https://wordpress.com/post/catherinebroad.blog/5185
I would like to know whether Busch senior kept working at GM after Busch Jr. was killed.
On obit states he died at age 90 and was with GM for forty years. He was born in 1912 so would have been 66 in 1978 when Chris died. Was he still working then? Good question. He was in 1977 but after Chris died? Needs deeper digging.
Hal , your input won’t last long. If it goes counter to exhausting and convoluted info it dies. I know, I’ve tried
Judy, not sure if that means you agree or disagree with me. I do know that lack of conviction leads to many theories, which I will assume are well meaning (as are mine). A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself if you want to be charged on theories and conjecture or evidence. The thought of Christopher Busch makes me sick, but what is the actual evidence against him?
I was just answering the question bitamoney posed concerning H Lee’s employment at GM.
Kathleen, if I remember correctly, I put you in touch with retired detective Jack Kalbfleisch quite a few years ago. Furthermore, a FOIA request was filed on Wolodzko. Marney and I looked in to him as best as we could given we are civilians.
Horrible human being, but being as I am not a cop, I didn’t get very far. If you have better ideas, post here. If you have a problem with my writing, why read it?
Cathy, it’s amazing how people come to YOUR blog about YOUR brother and others being MURDERED…yet it is ALL about them and their feelings and theories!?!
And then the person(s) who obviously have an agenda in squashing any type of talk or theory about what happened. To them, I ask…which family member or friend of the suspects or L. Brooks or Jessica Cooper or the countless other failed cops/investigators are you?
In a disgusting and psychotic case, there really are a bunch of disgusting and psychotic assholes who love to come to you to push whatever agenda they have.
Hang in there, Cathy.
Thank you, Matt.
There are also plenty of people who read the blog because we’re furious about what happened and couldn’t care less about constructing meaningless pet theories.
Thanks. Just trying to imagine him showing his face among the others etc.
GM had mandatory retirement at 65 in those days. So, Lee would have retired some time in 1977.
Thanks for that info/
Well what I caught of this interview is those ‘bloody ropes’. When is she and others going to put that down? It was on Appleman’s book cover as well for god’s sake. Whomever came up with that as some type of proof of Busch involvement, it borders on ridiculous and always has. Paul Walton’s first line of defense is those bloody ropes do not provide any proof and that is not opinion but fact. He has stated that a few times now on TV. Had those ropes been used and suggested like that, it would have drew blood from the victims, it would have been more than heavily specified in the police reports and very pronounced rope scars would have been apparent in the injuries of the victims. My understanding is that there were marks on wrists but not scars and it was undetermined what caused them. It is time to get real. We need to drop the bloody ropes and look at the red flags raised in Georgia 10 years ago. Still waiting for Marney’s response on that.
What about 10 years ago in GA? Please be specific.
So I’m off by a year or two. Cathy knows damn well as most readers should know by now. If not, than it’s not worth discussing which seems to be the case.
Let’s just keep pretending that those bloody ropes has some significance to this case.
Thanks Cathy, its a great podcast and I have been attending Marney’s virtual book discussions. People ask some interesting questions and she is very knowledgeable. Hope all is well with you.
Jeremy
THANK YOU, Jeremy! Hanging in there and I hope you are, too.
This is my last comment regarding Hal, Anonymous or whatever he uses. The comments indicate he’s
1. intelligent
2. Educated
3. Has a personal agenda.
I hope that’s the last we hear from “him”. I don’t want this blog to become a JonbenetRamsey style BS center. So I’m done. If you let him he can yak all he wants.
It feels like this got stirred up by the resurrection of the McKinney tip and murder. Someone wants to make sure this case is only discussed in terms of a clear DNA hit, which the odds are, given the state of the evidence collection and handling, is only a very remote possibility. The commenter realizes this, I’m sure. Discount everything else as rank speculation. In other words, let dead dogs lie. Challenge me all you want; you will have to challenge others who are telling this story and the ranks and avenues for this discussion are growing. “Take care”? Right.
See also: https://wilsonswordsandpictures.com/psychological-operations-and-the-occk-case/
I could be misremembering, but I thought I read somewhere that the ropes actually did NOT have blood on them.
It’s irrelevant. The one reason we know these ropes are important, blood, skin cells or no, is that these fuckers in LE keep denying the importance.
My response was actually that they were important because the kids didn’t have big wounds on their wrists, so those ropes very well could have been relevant. Which is an even bigger reason for them to ‘disappear’.
Along with those ropes is the sketch of Mark which is very disappointing that it’s disappeared the same way. I often wondered with today’s modern forensics if that sketch could have left a trace of the artist. Either some skin cells, finger prints or some other trace. That really could hold the key to not just the questionable suicide but possibly the OCCK himself. Un-F-in’ believable that it was just completely discarded.
As someone who draws, I think there had to be fingerprints on the drawing simply by using the less dominant hand to anchor the paper while drawing. And fingerprints are definitely left on paper. Just a quick search found information on “Inverse Fingerprints” developed about 2012 – had that drawing been properly preserved there is certainly a possibility fingerprint information could have been identified on it.
I’m an artist as well and totally agree. Thanks for pointing that out. Really wish that sketch could be recovered someway. Wonder if it was just misplaced like many other things with this case?