Tonight and Tomorrow, Virtual Book Discussions

Got it wrong the first time. Tonight is the virtual book discussion of The Snow Killings via Huntington Woods Public Library

Tomorrow is the virtual book discussion via Royal Oak Public Library

8 thoughts on “Tonight and Tomorrow, Virtual Book Discussions”

  1. I have always said, that I don’t know what happened to the OCCK kids. I don’t have a theory, I’ll leave that to the King family and other surviving family’s members.

    All I can claim to know, is that mutually exclusive things can’t both be true.

    If the Chris Busch suicide scene was “staged” to falsely implicate Busch in the OCCK cases, as a cover-up for someone else with greater involvement, then Chris Busch alleged confession “I did the Birmigham boy”, and Greene’s statement that Busch killed Mark Stebbins “in the woods”(?), cannot be true.

    If Tim King died “accidentally” as a result of “pressure asphyxiation” in Lamborgine’s house, and was subsequently disposed of by Lamborgine, driving the Gremlin, with Tim recognizably visible in the car, then the following cannot be true;
    Chris Busch confession to killing Tim King
    Tim King dying “on film” – the filming was done at Moore’s house or above the Theatre.

    If Tim King was “killed on film”, then Chris Busch confession cannot be true.

    Tim King was supposedly dropped off at Lamborgine’s house, but none of the other victims abused there has claimed to have seen him/ met him there. None of the men who perped there, claim to have seen him there. None of the victims exploited for pornography by Moore, claim to have seen or met Tim King in the course of their “performances”.
    There were no accidental witnesses to Tim King having been at Lamborgine’s house, Moore’s house, or in that neighborhood.
    There were no accidental witnesses to Mark Stebbins having been at Lamborgine’s house, Moore’s house, or in that neighborhood.

    K.B. is the only adolescent victim, who reports being forced to perform sex acts with one of the OCCK victims (Busch may have taken polaroids). This suggests Busch shared the obsession of the North Fox Island perps, for pornography depicting adolescent boys performing sex acts with pre-adolescents. If pornography was THE motive, or even A motive for the abductions, there should have been many sessions involving King, and Stebbins. But no other adolescent victims report being “partnered” with either boy, for sex on film or even just for sex as the men watched.

    1. None of us know–and we may never know–what happened to Mark, Jill, Kris and Tim. It is not my job to come up with a “theory.” When evidence surfaced in 2005 and 2006, we just wanted an honest response from law enforcement. We never got it. We want the truth, or as close as we can come, that’s all we have ever asked for. We want an examination of how this investigation was handled so this never happens again. “This” being the victimization of children, and an investigative and societal failure that allowed serial killer(s) to operate freely in Michigan.

      Today is the 45th “anniversary” of Mark Stebbins’ death. Do you have any theories about how to make sure something like this never happens again?

      1. I have no theories, period.

        Forgive me, I wasn’t “accusing” you of “having theories” about the case. I was making a round-about statement, that your family and other surviving families’ members, have the moral right to assert what can be known, what is known, what is myth, what is disinformation, what is provably false, about the case – should you wish to.
        A right that ought to be respected and honored by the public, by media, even law enforcement. And certainly, by me.

    2. RD,

      I agree with you that there are a number of contradictions here.

      A couple of things:

      Greg Green’s accusation to the Flint P.D. in January of 1977 that Chris Busch murdered Mark Stebbins was so odd that the Flint P.D. immediately suspected that Green himself had actually committed the murder – that’s they wrote in their report!

      By all accounts, Greg Green was an extremely violent and dangerous man, a psychopath perfectly capable of killing kids. Green scared people. The evidence went back for years on Green, long before Mark Stebbins was killed. (See Cathy’s post “Animal” just for starters.)

      Chris Busch on the other hand, apparently struck those who knew him as an amiable and somewhat bumbling oaf. A pervert/flasher who molested boys and who should have been behind bars, to be sure, but not necessarily a killer. I am NOT arguing that Chris Busch could not have been a killer, merely that, unlike Green, we have no evidence that Busch was an extraordinarily violent person.

      To kill little kids knowingly and repeatedly requires a depravity so dark that the vast majority of humanity simply could not do it.

      Yet the evidence shows Green was capable of murdering little kids. Busch? We just don’t know – we have no evidence.

      As for Busch’s confession to Larry Wasser, it strikes me that Wasser’s exact wording (“I know who did your boy”) to Coffey may (MAY!) have been more ambiguous than Pat Coffey initially assumed: Busch may not have confessed to (MURDERING) Tim King . . .

      Sure, but since none of us know precisely what Busch admitted to Wasser in 1977, then what I just wrote is no more speculative than anything else anyone here may think about that “confession.”

      Beyond any doubt, Chris Busch was involved at some point in Tim’s ordeal. Busch would have been very useful to various levels of law enforcement as a witness against anyone else in the ring, especially if he himself was not a kid-killer.

      Jessica Cooper explained pointedly to Marney Rich Keenan on October 26, 2012 why Busch was given a plea deal four times over: “Now what I know is: if in this day and age there was a deal like that, it would have had to be because of something extraordinary, like the feds came in and said he’s going to be a witness . . .”

      Jessica Cooper, in her special coded language way, told a reporter (MRK) exactly why Chris Busch got the special treatment back in 1977 – “the feds came in . . .” (page 212).

      So, if Busch was NOT one of the kid-killers in the ring (although he certainly was a participant), then he would have been very dangerous to actual killer/s. Those men would have had a very urgent need to prevent Busch from ever testifying to anything, and to make sure the case died with him.

      Could the killers have framed Busch as “the OCCK killer” by “arranging” his death scene?
      Of course!

      Is that exactly what they did do?

      I think so.

      1. > Could the killers have framed Busch as “the OCCK killer” by “arranging” his death
        > scene? Of course!

        Yes, you’ve got it! Busch’s neighbor. The one that raised red flags in Georgia during his polygraph. He really did like to sketch things as well.

      2. Paul;

        Not only that but this same Busch’s neighbor also matches the sketches of the original OCCK composite and Doug Wilson’s testimony quite remarkably well come to think of it. All of your speculation and you’re on to something. Keep going because speculation seems to be the only thing we have to work with.

  2. Cathy;

    Just as a little side story.

    The day I talked to your father at his Troy Michigan presentation in 2012, I did meet Marney. She may not remember it as it was very brief but I did talk to her.

    It’s not my nature to get involved with things like this especially in person but I wanted so much to convey the Big Boy incident was for real and the follow up investigation by my wife and me years later about police claiming they interviewed Big Boy staff was complete bull. They never talked to anyone at that Big Boy.

    I was a little flustered and frustrated with myself that day as it was not easy for me to even approach your dad. Avoiding the reporters, I was still able to talk to your dad for just a few minutes where I introduced myself and tried to make a long story short in two minutes. As I left and walked into the parking lot, a lady was running up to me to talk to me. She introduced herself as Marney and wanted to thank me for coming. Evidently someone had told her who I was or she might have overheard me talking to Barry. Whatever the case she was sincere and handed me her business card. We didn’t say much as I was a little disappointed how things went inside and was short on words. The only thing said was that Helen is a nut and I could not deny that as I agreed to her that she can be a nut at times. The discussion didn’t go anywhere beyond that.

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