DNA Testing in the OCCK Case 2008-2010

The FOIA documents I posted in early December this year contain three FBI lab reports from the Mitochondrial DNA Unit, one from 2008 (two hairs from Tim King’s shirt) and two from 2010 (1-10-10, hair from Mark Stebbin’s clothing and four hairs found on Tim King (resubmitted), and (12-20-20, four hairs, also “resubmitted,” two “from car” and two “from Pontiac”). A few readers contacted me about these reports and I want to share some observations. None of us has any qualifications to evaluate; these are just questions raised.

There have obviously been advancements in DNA testing, mtDNA testing and databases and genetic genealogy since 2010. https://portlandpress.com/emergtoplifesci/article/5/3/415/229502/Mitochondrial-DNA-in-forensic-use; https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/253077.pdf. I cannot tell you if the MSP has resubmitted anything addressed in these lab reports since 2010; whether at this time mtDNNA can even successfully be used in genetic genealogy; or whether they have submitted the Y-STR sample developed in Kristine’s case to any data bases such as GEDmatch, FamilyTreeDNA or MyHeritage (see https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/03/a-dna-company-wants-your-dna-to-catch-criminals/586120/). Significance of Y-STR testing, which has much higher discriminatory power than mtDNA: https://www.sakitta.org/resources/docs/SAKI-Y-STR-Testing.pdf.

I am betting the MSP has done exactly nothing with that Y-STR sample. But they will no doubt still maintain, as they will until the end of time, that this is an open, ongoing investigation and that the public deserves to know nothing about how they drag their feet and push paper around.

A few other preliminary observations. First, as noted in these three lab reports, various hair evidence was extinguished during testing. Very old samples, degraded due to extremely poor storage procedures at the MSP, are pretty tough to work with. Second, no surprise, the MSP conveniently refuses to collaborate with third-party labs in this case as police agencies around the world have in most of the recently solved cold cases. Third, you will see that there was quite a bit of hair evidence. When you read these reports, think of how many times those gaslighters in Oakland County and the MSP told the public just how flummoxed they were because the ingenious serial killer left not one single shred of evidence! Finally, consider how Jessica Cooper and Paul Walton scoffed at the mtDNA evidence from the hair found on Kristine’s jacket that could not be excluded as coming from Vince Gunnels, who was first a victim and then an associate of Chris Busch. That hair evidence was worthless. But this other hair evidence from “the Pontiac”–why, this is gold!

As is the case with every FOIA response in the OCCK case, there are duplicate documents and the order is disorienting. First let’s take a look at the January 8, 2010, report from the FBI lab to the MSP lab:

The two biggest questions a reader raised were:

  1. Why do the specimens Q26.1 (Tim), Q43.2 (Mark) and Q19 (the hair from the Pontiac) also have great similarity to that of K24 (Ruth Stebbins; differences highlighted in yellow–4 extra segments, but 10 others match)?
  2. Why do the only two segments listed under Q34.1 (“hair from debris from shirt”) match two segments in the HVI range for K41, Vince Gunnels?

Next another section of FOIA response, the December 20, 2010 FBI lab report which is followed by the January 8. 2010 report shown above, and then the August 11, 2008 report:

Note that specimen Q18.1 is hair from the Q18 slide “containing debris from car (#11), which given the narrative on pages 3 and 4 of the report must be John Crosbie’s car. If you have read the FOIA documents I posted in this case, you know this now deceased freak looked pretty good for participation in the abduction of Mark Stebbins.

The 12/10 lab report is followed by another copy of the 1/10 report and then by the August 11, 2008 report. Except for the notations “Larry A. Smith” at the top of page 3 and further down, “Gunnels” and “Smith” in the HVI section for specimen Q34.1 and “Hair was [too] small to analyze further to make definite conclusions”, all other notes are mine.

Has anything been done with Q19, the hair found in Arch Sloan’s Pontiac Bonneville in the days after Mark went missing? How about the other hair evidence? What has become of that all-important Y-STR sample developed in more recent years in Kristine’s case? The Y-STR sample in Kris’s case points, in my opinion, to the beginning of the shady dealings in the OCCK crimes by the then Oakland County prosecutor, L. Brooks Patterson and his proxies. No way they were going to reveal any details about sexual assault on the third victim of a serial killer in Oakland County. They could try to control that autopsy narrative and the even the story about what was happening to boys and arrests in Genesee County that same week. But they couldn’t control what would happen on March 16, 1977 or the fact that the Wayne County ME would conduct the autopsy on Tim King, not some sketchy, drunk OC ME.

There have been dramatic developments in DNA science since these reports were filed. The state police should not be able to have it both ways–do no work on the case, don’t stay on top of DNA developments that could affect this case, and still claim the investigation is “ongoing.” I’m not even sure the MSP would keep track of or store the evidence as instructed to do so by the FBI upon return from that agency. The Oakland County Prosecutor should request a report on the status and location of all evidence in this case, and make it available to the taxpaying public.

Do me a favor and comment here because I am about 300 emails behind. Share your insights with other readers right here.

If you have information about how Kristine’s autopsy was manipulated by the office of then OC ME Robert Sillery or the office of L. Brooks Patterson, or any information about violations of procedure by the Michigan State Police in their evidence retention in this case, email the FBI at michigancorruption@fbi.gov. If you feel you need to be anonymous, block your caller id and call 1-800-CALL-FBI.

THIS IS A PUBLIC CORRUPTION CASE. BY DESIGN, WE WILL PROBABLY NEVER KNOW EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THESE HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST CHILDREN OR THE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO LIED AND COVERED FOR THEM. IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO IDENTIFY WHO VIOLATED THEIR OATH OF OFFICE TO ASSIST ONE OR MORE OF THE MONSTERS INVOLVED AND HOW THEY PULLED ONE OVER ON THE CITIZENS OF OAKLAND COUNTY. SPEAK UP. PREVENT A SIMILAR ABUSE BY PUBLIC OFFICIALS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT.

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.

Archbishop Desmond Tutu


14 Comments on “DNA Testing in the OCCK Case 2008-2010”

  1. KP says:

    Thank you for putting all of this together.

    I hope Cory or someone with more inside knowledge will really read thru your post.

    As I understand, Arch Sloan was disregarded as a suspect for Mark because that Q19 hair did not match him. But in reading all these documents recently, I am wondering why LE never assumed Q19 to be Mark’s hair since it is so close to Ruth Stebbins’ profile. (Ruth has a few extra segments, but her mtDNA contains all the segments that were found on the hair in Sloan’s car.)

    I’m also surprised that LE didn’t notice that one of the hairs on Tim matches Gunnels, especially since he was tied to Kristine. (Albeit it is a very small segment and a very small range was tested, but how odd that the only two segments found match the two segments in that range on Gunnels.)

    Any DNA experts out there or anyone from LE?

    • cathybroad says:

      Thanks to the reader for the information used to put it together. 2010 was a lifetime ago in DNA world. But it doesn’t really matter to them because Q19 was only used by Cooper as part of her “anybody but Busch and Greene (and, frankly, Hastings),” and her campaigns to fuck over Cory Williams and Wayne County and to get reelected by the voters of Oakland County.

      • JN says:

        I really wonder what Coopers agenda was ? Why did she fuck with Corey? Why did she disregard Busch and Hastings? Well she never even mentioned Hastings. Hell no law enforcement or the media mentioned him. As far as I’m concerned he’s more of a suspect than Busch was or is. Just because Hastings didn’t have any prior pedophile convictions , he was never considered as a viable suspect. HUGE FUCKING MISTAKE! Most people in their 20’s wouldn’t have any convictions. This fucker has been brushed under the rug

        • cathybroad says:

          First off, yes Hastings has to be put under the LE microscope–for real. It is obvious to me that Birmingham PD got called off of this guy in 1992, and no doubt by Patterson or his goons. They still used the polygraph ruse with Hastings to put an end to that investigation. (“This is the bottom line” written by Ray Anger to Don Studt on the coversheet to the pathetic polygraph questions asked of Hastings in 1992 about my brother’s case–only). No law enforcement agency worth a damn allows a polygraph to circumvent real police work. And then–go figure–a LE agency outside of Michigan polygraphs this fucker in 2009 and uh-oh, it doesn’t go so well for John/Jack. No matter, Garry Gray and Dave Robertson sweep this under the rug. Too bad their FOIA response proves this. Even worse–no one appears to give a fuck.

          Hastings has been credibly accused (in my opinion; law enforcement won’t listen) as a kid snatcher for the very active pedophile ring operating in Detroit and the suburbs during the time of the OCCK crimes. Not as a pedophile–as a hanger-on who got paid to snatch kids for these freaks. That he knew and interacted with Chris Busch and was scared shitless of Greg Greene. That they let him hang around because they used him to get kids and because they had dirt on him (Anthony Mitchell “falling off,” or was that pushed, John/Jack??, a water tower when they were teens). If you believe even some of what this freak told Helen Dagner, he was not only obsessed with serial killers–he liked talking about succinylcholine and “Burking” as kill methods.

          No one was going to go back into the OCCK case, no matter what, including Hastings, who was an Oakland County resident and neighbor of Busch for god’s sake! Then Cory Williams came along. Bummer for the MSP and the OCP. But they did everything they could to make sure they tied one hand behind his back at every turn. The Georgia interviews and polygraphs? Fuck it, no need to show Williams.

          As for Cooper, given her immediate and strange response to Kym Worthy about the OCCK case in the early weeks of Cooper’s first term, I would say she had been contacted by her buddy Larry Wasser and his attorney Jim Feinberg prior to her being sworn in. Brought back some memories of her dead buddy and attorney to pedophile Chris Busch, Jane Burgess. Now that stirred up some shit, no doubt. Wasser and Burgess thought they handled that whole nasty Chris Busch business pretty well, especially since he wound up dead. Nothing to worry about after 11/78.

          She wasn’t going to deal with any of this Chris Busch/Larry Wasser business and got the Garry Gray look-alike from the FBI, former OC APA Sean Callaghan, on the case and for whatever reason–Wasser/Burgess, petty interagency jealousy, vindictiveness against my dad for daring to question her position, or a not-so-subtle message from Patterson and his goons that her office budget would be trashed by a civil suit if the truth got out–she and Paul Walton continued the corruption of L. Brooks Patterson and Robert Robertson of the MSP.

          • JN says:

            I never really thought about Paul Walton continuing L Brooks corruption. Thinking about it , I definitely can see it. I always thought there was some major friction between Cooper and your father. She did absolutely nada to continue the case. I was really hopeful that when AG Nessel got in, we would have gotten somewhere. Very disappointed to say the least. It was a complete joke at the Hastings 1992 polygraph questions; however, his 2009 polygraph done by Georgia Patrol Duncan’ sure got Hastings rattled. Rattled enough for Duncan to believe that Haystack was no doubtably involved. Let’s face facts here. There’s NO OTHER SUSPECT , that looks like those composites from your brothers abduction like JH. I’m just afraid time is ticking on him. Ounce he’s gone, there’s no way to get shit from him.

  2. RD1 says:

    It wouldn’t surprise me, if Vinny’s DNA could be link to ‘debris’ associated with Tim King.
    I have had suspicions, that he might have been used to ‘dispose’ of victims for someone else, and might even have been a “participant”. The fact that Vinny supposedly fled naked from Chris Busch’ desire to subject him to B&D sex, wouldn’t rule out subsequently finding the idea of playing the role of “master” strangely exciting.

    It happens, and although it’s NOT true that CSA victims become CSA perpetrators at higher rates than others, it is a sad fact that SOME teen boys recruited by the “boy-lovers” for their favorite abuse images theme of ‘teen boy abuses preteen boy’, wouldn’t have needed to be forced, or coerced, or even paid to participate.

    • cathybroad says:

      The record establishes that Gunnels was called a few days before being interviewed by LE. The caller said “Don’t testify.” Twice. We know that Chris Busch’s mother, Elsie Busch, offered young Gunnels money if he would not testify against her monstrous, pedophile son. This always made me think it was someone close to Busch (son or father) who was threatening Gunnels. Upon reflection, it could have been someone in law enforcement with a lot to lose, or someone connected to LBP’s office. This would be worse than a threat from one of the weasel Busch family. Whoever it was, the threat was probably something along the lines–implied or otherwise, that if you talk, you and your family will die.

      I think back to an interview of Gunnels when a reporter found him in Kalamazoo years ago. Gunnels denied everything, of course, but what did he say?–some version of I wish I could tell y’all what happened. I really wish I could.

      Then I think of Gunnels contacting my dad, asking him to meet with him and his AA sponsor in Kalamazoo, and the dog and pony show he put on for my dad and my brother (who accompanied my dad who otherwise would have gone alone). Needless to say, lying as a part of your 12-steps is not part of the program. Wayne County advised my brother to tape the meeting and gave him a device which of course did not work as planned. My brother then used his iPhone to record this worthless and cruel meeting. When reading FOIA documents, I saw that assholes from the OCP and the MSP represented this as my dad reaching out to a witness in this case, and my god, we can’t have that!!! Liars. Gunnels reached out to my dad, asked for the meeting, had his AA sponsor present. My dad told law enforcement (just not the dirty ones), brought my brother as a witness, and listened to Gunnel’s tale of woe. Really unbelievable. He was asking for my dad’s forgiveness through all of the lies he was telling. My dad extended compassion to him. Yet the OCP and the MSP have to lie in their notes and say my dad was after Gunnels. They are worse than Gunnels.

  3. KP says:

    The odd thing is, they have a sample of Mark’s hair, why not just compare it? They never show the mtDNA profile of Mark’s hair, although I assume it to be the same as his mom’s. The biggest puzzle to me if it is Mark’s hair found in the Pontiac (and on Mark), how did one also end up on Tim?

    I also don’t know if there are hairs from multiple cars of if the labeling is just different. Like Q18 is ‘car’ where as Q19 and Q20 are ‘Pontiac’.

    This case needs a real DNA person so desperately, and what a shame that the public’s hands are tied. If money was an issue, I am sure a Gofundme could raise the money. All it takes is a ‘clean’ person in law enforcement that is high enough up. But maybe that person doesn’t exist. Would be nice if someone actually tried to find Gunnels and also follow up on Hastings as well.

    Is there anything Kym Worthy can do? I’m sure it is a long shot but is there a way to bring in a private Geneticist to evaluate the data from the FOIA documents, find issues, and force LE to reevaluate? (I know, I’m dreaming). Would be nice if someone could force LE to look at Hastings too given the negligence/lack of follow up on the polygraph results.

    • cathybroad says:

      I told MSP Det/Sgt Sean Street I would pay for this evaluation. I put him in touch with a genetic genealogist who offered her services for free. But I am sure he suspects the real reason why every offer of help will be rejected by the MSP–because Jessica Cooper wanted Q19 to blow up the investigation, make it look like she was doing something in the case, get something in the press after that series David Ashenfelter wrote about the case the summer of 2012. Did you ever hear one more substantive word from her on this case after that deceptive, bullshit press conference about her pal Arch Sloan? Hell no.

      • KP says:

        And how convenient… if Q19 was deemed the lynchpin for the whole case by LE, they knew they would never have to arrest anyone for these crimes if it is Mark’s DNA. (Since they already knew who the match was.). There’s also a lot of evidence they have that they never share the mtDNA for in the documents.

        Has your genealogist connection looked at the info at all? It’s just shocking to me that the victim’s families are treated so poorly. It’s nauseating.

        • cathybroad says:

          And as all of them are so fond of saying, who knows where that hair came from???? Don’t forget that Mark’s body was processed by a Southfield detective who got permission to do so by PATTERSON, to avoid using the unreliable, sketchy, boozing ME in Oakland County.

  4. cathybroad says:

    And there is no “clean” higher up at the MSP. The culture of that agency is abhorrent.

  5. KP says:

    Does Wayne County have an jurisdiction over the evidence, at least Tim’s? Could Wayne County push for testing of his evidence?


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