A reader wrote to ask if I had details about other abduction attempts in Oakland County because it only makes sense that the killer or killers had made numerous other attempts in their quest to grab and kill kids in 1976 and 1977. Here are the few newspaper articles I found addressing in mostly general terms the many abduction attempts that were reported:
A detective who had been with Birmingham PD told me years ago that two weeks after my brother’s murder, a boy reported an abduction attempt in the same parking lot Tim was taken from. The date of that attempt? March 15, the day before Tim was abducted. Good luck finding that report–but can you imagine how helpful that could have been–then and even now. But I have a feeling the powers that be in Oakland County didn’t want any more press about how the kids there were sitting ducks.
In the wake of more recent publicity about Ted Lamborgine, Arch Sloan, Frank Shelden, Chris Busch, Greg Greene and Vince Gunnels, numerous people came forward as adults to say “this was the man/teenager who tried to abduct me” or worse. They told police, reporters, my dad, and me. Back in the day, prior to the OCCK killings, these types of crimes were seemingly no big deal to police. No big deal until, oops–yes, they are.
There is the 1974 abduction of James Davis, described in the first entry of the OCCK case timeline at https://www.preceden.com/timelines/547927.
The Royal Oak Tribune, January 17, 1975, reported an abduction attempt of a 10-year-old boy while he was on safety patrol on Thursday, January 16 at Donna and Sherry Streets in Madison Heights. Two men pulled up in a light blue car, turned off the ignition and watched the boy. After a few minutes a 6’2″ thin man (estimated to be 19 years old) got out and tried to grab the boy, who ran to a nearby house for help.
I’ve always wondered about the case of Mark Wayno, a 12-year-old who lived across the street from Mark Stebbins in Ferndale, and who was said to have run away for two nights on January 25, 1977. Mr. Wayno died in 2021.
And there was an abduction or abduction attempt of a Royal Oak girl in the late sixties/early seventies that allegedly may have been connected to the OCCK crew. I filed a FOIA request with ROPD but did not have sufficient information to narrow the search for any records. They also pointed out that if it had been an abduction attempt there might not be any record of it anyway. A search of newspapers.com and the Royal Oak Tribune archives yielded no insights.
Two other abduction cases, one from 1970 and the other from 1966. Thanks to a reader:
Still looking for any information about a report mentioned by reader RD1 “about a 14 year old boy who reported an attempted abduction to Southfield PD, after the Mark Stebbins tragedy, and who apparently stressed that he “looks like Stebbins” – ?
Complainant was Michael R. Incident Report 02/25/76 Investigator Doan.”
This would have been post-February 19, 1976 (Mark was abducted Februaryy 15, 1976).
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Thanks for posting the actual May 31, 1977 article, which had the information on a man named John. I was meaning to find it, and read it in its entirety.
I had just recently viewed this information on an old Helen web site (last post on this link). https://cloakdagner.proboards.com/thread/2961/occk-feedback?page=17
Curiously, this link also has an interesting post that may relate to your post yesterday regarding the Warren, Michigan location in Helen’s email.
May 20, 2013 at 3:23 AM:
Helen, The brief legal note-I received-said only that- Two men-recently sought out- a law firm -in another State to Find accurate information about the kinds of help that’s out there-in connection with the Oakland County Child Murders -1976-77
One man was from Warren Michigan. The other was from-Lake Orion, Michigan, this was in June ,2007. I never heard back from them.
Thanks for the 608 pages on Haystack Catherine. I hold onto my ground that he was at HM on that warm March Wednesday evening. I contend that it was him that ran into Polly Coltman earlier that day. So that being said, if that’s all factual, he’s guilty as charged and should pay the fiddler.
I thought it was relevant to consider the additional documents about this well-mannered, serial killer-fascinated, Brother Rice graduate.
Hard to believe this blog is over 10 years old now! I’ve been reading since day 1 and applaud you, and your never give up attitude, Cathy. Keep the info flowing.
I’ve been studying this case for over 40 years. Along with every other serial killing and cold case I can find.
The most maddening part of this case not being solved is the geographical limits. Bundy offended in multiple states which made it very, very difficult. DeAngelo was offending across California, again a huge geographical challenge. But, both of them started very close to home.
And in Gilgo Beach the perp lived very close.
In this case we are talking about a few mile radius. The universe of suspects can’t be insurmountable to review.
I’m not looking to be argumentative but I don’t see Hastings, Busch or Greene being involved at all. Those clowns couldn’t organize a 2 float parade. And they’d never get these kids into a car without a ruckus. They were/are a bunch of bums.
The guy we are looking for is slick, very polished, not at all threatening. I agree with the views as expressed by the police in the articles you attached. He was able to put these kids at ease. He doesn’t look like a predator. And he won’t take wild chances.
So to law enforcement, get out of your own way. The following is for you ……
This is a white guy, 25-35 in 1977, who lived within 3-4 miles of the Ferndale abduction site. Likely he lives very close to where he took Stebbins, because he will do this the first time in the most comfortable surroundings. How many white guys, 25-35, lived that close to the American Legion? Can’t be a massive number. And your guy is probably in that group.
He, or someone he knows, likely has a Pontiac Tempest.
He is probably already in your tip file. But you would have quickly dismissed him because he was probably a professional (engineer or electrician) or at least worked a job with some level of community respect. He could be a cop, fireman, clergy, maybe even a local business owner. Someone would’ve called him in because he lives alone and can be slightly odd at times. But whoever called him in likely would’ve had second thoughts. Did you have any tips where someone called back and said to forget the tip because it couldn’t be that guy?
He may have inadvertently interjected himself into the investigation by calling in a tip. Sometimes these guys can’t stay away.
Eventually things may have caught up with him and he offended again later in life, probably a CSC charge against a child. If that’s the case, it would have been a shock to those who know him.
He is definitely the organized serial killer per the FBI classification. The guy is very disciplined, a planner, a type A personality.
Come on Law Enforcement, this case should be solved.
Thank you for your insights, Mark. And imagine that with what would be close to $3 million in today’s dollars in grant money (that’s just the $550,000 they got from the feds), and hundreds of thousands of tax dollars, no one can/will answer any of the points you raise. Your point about the geographical limits hits especially hard, especially when compared with the other cases you mention.
How about Robert Van Hengel the suspect in Gail Webster’s 1978 murder.He was an ATF agent and had a tip called in about him to the OCCK taskforce and admitted to having child abuse material in his possession.Look him up on Google images he matches the suspect sketch aswell.Also fancied himself as an artist and could have provided the sketch in Busch’s room.
Thankyou for posting this info,I’m surprised that Gregory Greene got life in prison when most pedos at that time we’re getting probation or time in a hospital etc.What did the sentencing judge know of his crimes or links to the OCCK
They knew about his little stint in a nut house in California for sexually abusing hundreds of boys, but they also knew he was connected up with Chris Busch, who was getting the kid glove, wealthy pedophile treatment in numerous other Michigan jurisidictions. They needed Greene locked up at Jackson and for no investigators to ever speak with him again. Greene could never be connected again with Busch. Never.
Any follow-up information anyone might have, about a 14 year old boy who reported an attempted abduction to Southfield PD, after the Mark Stebbins tragedy, and who apparently stressed that he “looks like Stebbins” – ?
Complainant was Michael R. Incident Report 02/25/76 Investigator Doan
Post updated 8-30-23.
If it was the OCCK that tried to abduct someone from Hunter Maple right before Tim, you’d think that info would’ve been somewhere in the documents. I assume Birmingham PD has no record of it either… If it is all true, that would somewhat eliminate that there was a connection between the four kids and that it was more of opportunistic kidnappings. (I’m assuming if it was someone Tim or your family knew, you would have heard about it long before now.) Would be so helpful even now if that person came forward and could look at old photos of Gunnels, Sloan, Hastings, Busch, Greene, Lamborgine, etc. (Although Greene was in prison then I believe).
I don’t know what Hunter/Maple looked like back in 1977 but if there were kids skateboarding there and people coming and going like I imagine, it is hard to believe how you could get someone into the car unwillingly. I’ve wondered if the person talked to Tim to make themselves familiar, and then followed up on his walk home. Something like that could have happened outside the American Legion and 7-11 as well. Regarding Jill, I wonder if there were two people, one to get her in the car and the other to take the bike. I can’t imagine forcing someone in the car and then having the time to take the bike. Unless it was someone that knew her.