Guess that advisory on child molesting came in handy down the road. Thanks to a reader for this uplifting news clip.
In case you missed these comments:
Let the monster(s) Ted Lamborgine know what you think of him (MDOC number 643240) at Kinross Correctional Facility 4533 W. Industrial Park Drive Kincheloe, MI 49788 (this location had a riot on Sept 13, 2020 and as such his location may of changed – but your correspondence will be routed to him). His enabler–Pastor Dennis Raster of Real Life Christian Church, 66090 Van Dyke, Washington Twp 48095 or at his radio show location: 2 Radio Plaza St Ferndale, Mi 48220-2129. This guy takes Ted’s pension checks and absolves Ted of his sins whilst letting the victims and families suffer unmerciful torture- this guy even has a guy named LAWLESS working for him– speaks to this charlatan con man parasite with his sanctimonious degenerate actions. James Vincent Gunnels– he’s a parole absconder at the moment– we will provide contact details as soon as he is apprehended. He most certainly killed Susan Jill Robinson. Next is Arch Edward Sloan (MDOC number 100765) can be reached all day everyday at Gus Harrison Correctional Facility, 2727 East Beecher St. ADRIAN MI 49221 You can also see their criminal records on the OTIS website for Michigan (Ted was convicted of 14 counts).Reply1Like
- cathybroad Thank you, occk. Ted’s incredible cruelty toward children is detailed in the FOIA documents (2005-2007). He enjoyed making boys suffer terribly. Enjoyed it. Many years ago I asked Cory Williams, a cop who has been around the block, what it was like to sit in the same room as Lamborgine. He replied “Ted is a monster.” This from someone who has seen some monsters. Pastor Dennis Raster is using ill-gotten gains. You can’t buy your way into Heaven, but apparently his sheep think so. He should be called upon to donate every last cent he has received from Lamborgine to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. A disgraceful, poor excuse for a “pastor.” Cough it up and apologize. Your sheep are tainted by this as well. Gunnels–yes, just a matter of time. Probably in Montana with his half-sister Karen or his brother Paul. They all know. I am working on finding a way to show you the documents that show what an evil motherfucker Arch Sloan was, too. A super-predator who brags in prison about the serial killings he got away with. Complains that after he was named as a suspect, he’s been beaten and robbed in prison. Sucks to be you, old man. Do you know what the difference is between Ted Lamborgine, Arch Sloan and philanthropist Frank Shelden or some pedophile/suit with a home on Cass Lake or Orchard Lake? Not a damn thing.
As detailed in Marney Keenan’s book, The Snow Killings, in the summer of 2009, a person of interest was polygraphed in Atlanta–a neighbor of Chris Busch; John Hastings. (Pages 139-40). This man had been on the radar screen of law enforcement since the very beginning. In 1992, Birmingham PD gave him a big pass. In 2009, Det. Garry Gray with the MSP gave him another pass, along with a cheery “stay in touch!”
Thank you to a careful reader who located the following passage from the FOIA documents concerning this “passed” polygraph by Hastings. I will say this: It took lawsuits, appeals, over $11,000 plus attorney fees to get a pile of redacted documents from the Michigan State Police. A pile of documents wherein they neatly tucked photos of my brother’s dead body. If you have read The Snow Killings, you know this is right up the alley of Garry Gray and Dave Robertson. Very clever, gentlemen. If you have grandkids, I hope you remember this little stunt every time you look at them.
As with any big document response, redactions can be made with a heavy hand and still result in a few slip ups.
As another reader observed, the public should both fear the killers and the system. Outside of Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy, there is no one who has seriously taken on the corruption within the system. In this case, there is plenty.
The kind of corruption that allows a man like this to slip through the cracks on so many occasions. It cannot be explained by laziness and mistakes. An accomplice, an accessory, felony murder. These labels may apply to a number of still-living people in this case. Some people are still alive who are left holding the bag. It is the job of law enforcement to make good on their oath of office, not make assumptions that allow for a quick ditching of suspects or information. You know there are still LE alive who don’t want this case solved, no matter what bullshit they tell the occasional reporter who inquires about the status.
People are alive who participated in these crimes and/or have information they should have come forward with. There are apparently no good cops from back in the day who know how this thing got shut down and want to talk. Cowards, all of them. The system may be irrevocably broken in Oakland County, Michigan.
No, this does not in any way sound like someone who passed a polygraph. It sounds like big ego-ed state police deciding they couldn’t handle the truth, most certainly not if a civilian like Helen Dagner dished it up.
Everyone who is even vaguely familiar with the OCCK case associates it with a blue Gremlin. A woman in the parking lot Tim King was abducted in told police she saw a boy matching Tim’s description, talking to a man standing next to a blue Gremlin with a white hockey stripe. Then all you heard about for the next 40-plus years was the blue Gremlin.
If you have read Marney Keenan’s book, The Snow Killings, Inside the Oakland County Child Killing Investigation, you know that in Chapter 14 she breaks down the tragedy of errors and lack of communication to the public with information about cars that may have been involved in these crimes. Another tragic missed opportunity to have possibly made an arrest.
Her well researched and documented conclusion:
The common denominator from witness accounts in all four victims’ cases was a General Motors vehicle, likely a compact or sedan, even more likely a Pontiac Tempest or Oldsmobile Cutlass, blue or green in color. [Detective] Williams ran [Doug] Wilson’s license plate numbers [discussed under hypnosis] and all other variations, and checked all vehicles of known suspects for a LeMans, Tempest and Cutlass, without success.The Snow Killings, p. 179-180.
As Keenan describes in this chapter, photographs of the bumper impressions in the snow at the Mihelich crime scene were analyzed to reveal measurements that were then taken to the car manufacturers to help identify the make and model of the car. This process took over a year and on September 7, 1978, the Michigan State Police issued a press release about this possible car and others associated with the other abductions and body drops.
The next day, The Detroit Free Press asked “Child Killer in Pontiac?”
Of course the task force was shutting down at the end of the year, and who knows if there is any documentation on leads that came in after this relatively confusing press release and the resulting news article.
When the task force was allegedly back on track in 2005, retired Det./Lt. Jack Kalbfleisch contacted Det./Sgt. Garry Gray at the MSP and suggested they provide the car information to the public. Gray responded that this would result in too many useless leads and would be embarrassing (after their decades of Gremlin love). Kalbfleisch asked to see his old report concerning the bumper impressions. Gray’s response: Can’t find it. So everyone had to operate on decades-old memory while Gray and Robertson stood guard over their file cabinets.
Marney Keenan was kind enough to provide me with the copies of the MSP FOIA documents she obtained concerning Doug Wilson’s hypnosis session, and the observations of a witness near where Jill Robinson’s body was left.
You will find them very interesting.
A simple Wikipedia search reveals that the Pontiac LeMans was at first a trim upgrade on the Tempest, and then the LeMans model evolved over ensuing years. And don’t forget that Chris Busch drove a blue Vega with a white hockey stripe–at least he did in March 1977. And that Bob Moore had his crew chop up a blue Gremlin at his house of horrors. There is no end of rabbit holes when a case like this gets fucked up.
At the end of the day, the biggest question is why this car information was not made public in a timely fashion in a way that would have moved the case forward. And then when the MSP was allegedly taking another pass at this case in 2005, why this car information was not made public at that time.
I can’t reinvent the wheel on this car stuff or say it any better than Marney Keenan did in Chapter 14, so I refer you there for further details. Thank you again for the documentation. It really helped.
When you think about the failure to ever release the two composite drawings of the older and younger man and the failure to get this car information straight and tell the public, the need to have this case removed from the hands of the MSP is self-evident. They don’t have the desire, time or the resources to undue the damage they have done in this case. Obviously they would rather have you think Marney’s book is fictionalized. It’s not. Don’t let yourself be further gaslighted by this public agency. It’s outrageous.
If you have a tip, now that you have read these previously unseen FOIA documents, call the tip line–not because you will get a call back, but to help document that the tip line is a sham. Note the date and time you called and the information you gave and whether you ever got a call back. This information can help support a push to have this case independently reviewed by a responsible agency.
Tip Line: 833-784-9425
Dating back 15-some years on internet forums discussing the OCCK case, I always believed Alpena Witness and Berkley Witness were telling the truth about what they saw and heard. Their stories never wavered. They had no motive to lie. They were not treated well when they came forward to police (a massive understatement in the case of Berkley Witness). Alpena Witness, having read Marney Keenan’s book, sent me the following email. No attacks please. Read it and carefully consider what he says before you let your brain shut off.
It’s approaching near three decades (next year will be 30 years even) since I witnessed the most bizarre discussion I ever heard in my life along with someone going over details on maps drawn on the back of restaurant placemats. It’s been maybe about 15 years now since I woke up to what it was all about and started my correspondence with you along with others involved with the case.
There’s no need to go over the same details again and I won’t. I see the same arguments and debates that has been going on for years now though. Different people with same arguments but in some cases, some of the same people with their suspects and stories. Seems beyond pointless to really debate or argue over any of it. Been there so many times before. People out there can believe whatever they want to believe. Because when it comes to the truth over this case, we will probably never know.
If people want to discount Helen’s story and suspect because of her character I guess that’s the easy way out of it. After all, law enforcement has done the same thing since day one. I guess when it comes to hard evidence it’s not there but on the other hand, no one has really taken any steps to go find if something was there.
At least now with Marney’s book I know what really happened when they went to Georgia. Looks like what appeared to be a shoddy investigation if you even want to call it that. Looks like Detective Gray can be blamed for most of it, not Cory. I kind of figured that all along anyway but I really didn’t know for sure. Try to understand that no one ever really told me what happened in regards to that incident. Cory never got back with me after we talked and now I know why. I’ve always seemed to get the cold shoulder from everyone because of my association with Helen and now I can understand all the more why.
I did talk to both Cory & Gray and my impression of Cory was he really was trying to solve the case and was dedicated to what he was doing. Searching for the truth finding out what he can like someone dedicated should be. I did not get that same impression from Detective Gray. I feel bad now knowing what happen. As I got more involved with the case, I did realize that Helen did lie about things while trying to encourage people to look at her suspect. She did play her games with people. Seems like her life was wrapped around this case and she felt like she owned it. That may be hard to understand but that was the way she was.
Although I don’t support Helen and all of her doings, I will say that her claims she made about John’s discussions with her at Big Boy did take place. That is the truth and nothing changes that. It did happen. I will still stand behind that and I always will.
Because of Helen’s character it’s not been easy to approach all the people I did but I felt they must know the truth. Except for Cory, all the rest of the cops made it a joke. I tried to explain to Mr. King and even had a brief discussion with Marney over the matter. With her it was just that Helen is a nut and nothing was discussed beyond that.
If I had to do anything over I don’t think I would change anything although it’s been frustrating as hell but deep down inside I feel I’ve tried to do everything possible to let people know the truth. Otherwise my conscience would really bother me. If anyone witness something similar out there from back in time and can help this case along, please come forward.
With these very recent developments with the Wilson hypnosis sketches further tells a story. Just due to the very fact that these composite sketches never saw the light of day until now either makes all the more evident of a ‘cover up’ or ‘lack of investigation’. Or maybe both! This is especially true when seeing the haunting similarity to the first OCCK sketch that came out. Who in their right mind in law enforcement would keep this from the public? What is also shocking is how much it matches Helen’s suspect even more than the OCCK sketches did! I think Helen would be rolling over in her grave about now to see that.
To you Cathy although we don’t agree over some matters with this case, it never stopped the correspondence we’ve had over the years. Make no secret to anyone that I’ve tried to help when I can over some things. Wish the best for some type of resolution on this case regardless of where it points to or who it points to.
Never, not once, was this man rude to me, although as he points out we had our disagreements. He has always been helpful. He met face-to-face with the cops, he didn’t just post in anonymous forums. The MSP dissed him, as they do anyone who comes forward in this case. Sadly, his treatment by the MSP over a decade ago was very prescient.
A few words about Berkley Witness. He is not lying. Kids don’t lie unless they have a real good motive. Police dogged him for decades after he, as a kid, called the tip line and later had a most unpleasant sit down with some cops who visited his school. He is not crazy, he is not “nuts.” I believe two very dirty cops, who dogged this man and ultimately inflicted unwarranted, serious bodily injury to him, were trying to kill him to silence him and for payback. One of these cops is still alive. He and anyone he might have carrying out his dirty work should be watched carefully, if you ask me. When a dirty cop tells you someone is crazy–consider the source. These abusers of power and civil rights gaslight and lie 24/7. That’s how they manage to keep their “reputation” and still do whatever the fuck they want. Consider the recent revelations about “Officer Friendly” if you want to argue with me on this.
Berkley Witness is not lying. Not about what he saw, not about what the cops did to him and his friends. It should have resulted in a massive lawsuit and numerous criminal charges. I could weep just thinking about what those cops did and got away with. So frustrating. But it is easier for “society” to say he is lying or “nuts” and that these cops were “good men.” The easy way out. Always. Especially in suburbia.
So many innocent people have been damaged and abused in the wake of this investigation. The crimes were heinous enough without compounding them by abusing people who tried to do the right thing.
When the OCCK task force was “rejuvenated” in 2005 there was some press coverage of the efforts being made by the MSP. In none of those articles or news clips could I find a request by detectives to the public to come forward with information and who and how to contact the state police. Because I have a couple thousand editors, I’m sure one of you will let me know if I missed an MSP statement asking the public for help.
Since October 26, 2009, when Marney Rich Keenan’s front page article “Finding Timmy’s Killer,” the Michigan State Police have used the same playbook they always do. Initially, they are somewhat cordial, until someone starts asking questions. Then it’s the silent treatment and/or gaslighting.
See, for example “A Father’s Mission: Victim’s dad demands to know why 4 child murders remain unsolved after 40 years,” by Kevin Davis for the American Bar Association Journal (Feb. 1, 2017), https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/oakland_county_child_killings. In the article, attorney Lisa Milton observed that when my Dad started asking the MSP questions,”was when they started being resistant.”
In the 11 years since my Dad went public with the failings of the legal system in this case, the Michigan State Police have actually responded in the press three times.
October 26, 2009, The Detroit News:
“There has been a lot of frustration felt by the Kings over the past couple of weeks,” said State Police Captain Harold Love, second district commander in charge of Southeast Michigan, which oversees the task force. Love said meetings with the kings had to be rescheduled due to some “issues” within the task force.
“I don’t blame them at all. We had some issues within the task force as far as where information was coming from and what information was out there and things people were saying and we needed to get the task force all on the same page.”
And then on November 7, 2009:
“We are hoping there will come a point and time to bring this together and have everybody come together and present a conclusion to the public and to everybody else so we can put this thing to bed.”
Captain Harold Love, as quoted in the Macomb Daily News. https://catherinebroad.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/2020-03-31_204751.pdf
And yesterday–11 years later–an unnamed coward from the MSP in response to Marney Keenan’s book, The Snow Killings, Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation:
“We don’t comment on fiction.”
Is this how you display your PROUD tradition of SERVICE through EXCELLENCE, INTEGRITY, and COURTESY?
The MSP is still operating in the Dark Ages. Could this be the impetus behind Dana Nessel’s new Criminal Investigative Division? https://wwmt.com/news/state/nessel-announces-creation-of-criminal-investigations-division-of-attorney-generals-office. I wouldn’t want to rely on the state police, either.
Barring some massive reorganization and shift from its good-old-boy roots, the MSP should never again be put in charge of any major case or cold case. The MSP should be assisting local agencies, not being the God of cases.
You never asked for the public’s help. Not once since that shitty, inaccurate and confusing press release about cars in September 1978. Your tip line is essentially unmanned. A common theme heard among people who came forward with information–back in 1976, 1977, 1978 and every year since is that they have not been heard. Your circular file has received heavy use.
Yesterday there were two well-respected journalists on camera with the parent of a murdered child. Yet no one from your agency could appear on camera to give even a short update on where the case is headed. Of course you couldn’t resist that unprofessional comment. That is who you are. The MSP has used up all of its good faith. Time to have another agency pick up the pieces “and put this thing to bed.”
That is what a Michigan State Police spokesperson said, off camera, to Heather Catallo of WXYZ Detroit concerning Marney Keenan’s well-researched and documented book, The Snow Killings: Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation.
This is part one of a two-part series. The segment airs again tonight at 11 pm EST and you can live stream it or download the WXYZ app and watch for free at 11 pm. Go to “Sections” on the app and scroll down to “Live Video”.
Part two airs tomorrow at 6 and 11 pm.
No one from the MSP had the balls to appear on camera. This time they didn’t even throw down the “can’t comment on open cases” excuse. No, this time it was: “We don’t comment on fiction.”
This case MUST be taken from the state police and given to an agency that is not hellbent on protecting the fiction they created when they shut down this case in 1978. Help me figure out a way to get this done. They are doing what they do best–doubling down and fucking with people. They will never make this right.
Expect some lying on tomorrow night’s segment. You can bet on it.