My brother did not stand a chance.

From a reader:

My name is X and I have been haunted by the unspeakable horror of the OCCK crimes and law enforcement’s subsequent inability and/or unwillingness to officially solve the case for over forty years.  A near miss in my own front yard around 1977/1978 in Franklin, Michigan only served to solidify my terror and fear that I easily could have been another victim. The Franklin police basically dismissed us when we called immediately after the incident because I did not get a license plate (I was 8 years old).  

. . .

While at my first job I attempted to garner interest in this unsolved case as the possible basis for a TV movie.  I was told that I needed more source material to flesh out a narrative to “pitch” as I only had a collection of old newspaper articles and possibly McIntyre’s book.  In 1993 I cold called retired LT. Robert H. Robertson to see if he would share any information or insight to further my efforts.  Shortly thereafter I received a package from him with a sampling of the content from his personal files with handwritten notes and comments. I recall that Robertson said his files were all in his garage.

Robertson’s material seemed appropriately sanitized and was helpful for my purposes of preparing a more detailed treatment/story.  Despite my best efforts to get the story from page to screen over the course of my career in entertainment, I failed to ever get this project launched. At the time no one would touch a serial child murder story with no resolution.

Consequently, Robertson’s package has languished in my file cabinet. . . . I just pulled it out to review after reading Marney’s excellent account of the investigation and your revelatory blog posts. In the context of what is now known, I can’t help but ask if it’s possible that anything here might be useful. Is it even remotely possible that any of this information wasn’t released long ago or disseminated in FOIA documents? I have no idea but I cringe at the thought that I was potentially granted more access to information than the victims’ families. I really hope that I am wrong. 

CONTENTS: 
Handwritten cover letter.
A typed transcript of Robertson’s final in a series of tapes re: the Oakland County Task Force.  He claims to have made many tapes covering many topics and lists examples.
Robertson’s log for first day of task force after Tim’s abduction (these look original-his note says he has a log for each day of the task force).
Copies of pages from Robertson’s notebook for May 17th, May 31st and June 16th, 1977.
A Psych profile from Nicholas Groth, Ph.D/Connecticut Correction Institution.
LEAA-Police Tech. Assistance Report.
ESP File -summary of the case work with psychic Philip Jordan including composite sketches from his visit to Detroit August 1977.
Project Anniversary notes.
Misc. Press releases and WANTED flyers.
Note to Interpol.
Letter from Sheriff’s Office in Yreka, CA re: unsolved child murder/asking if there are similarities to OCCK case.
Chronological Order of Events.
Robertson Synopsis of Special Oakland County Task Force sent to MSP.

NOTE: There’s no mention of Busch anywhere.  But Richard Lawson’s name is written on Robertson’s log from Tuesday May 17th 1977.  
Also he has a note from May 31st 1977 about Belcher/Gill Road incident and failure to show up for a polygraph. Dyer surveillance also noted.
Robertson’s transcript from his own tapes reveals that Birmingham Police erased the tapes of incoming phone calls on March 16, 17, 18, 19th etc. so all of those tips/info was lost. WTF!!!
In the ESP file the psychic mentions a lot of weird stuff.  One impression he “sees” is string art on the wall of the killer(s) apartment.  This was a full month before the John McKinney murder and the fiber art piece by Jane Knight disappeared from his gallery. 


55 Comments on “My brother did not stand a chance.”

  1. Jeremy Press says:

    Cathy, thank you for posting this, took awhile to read through it all. I think the one thing all of this information shows is how bungled this case was by all of the police departments and especially the Michigan State Police. Robertson’s input definitely didn’t help. The one composite photo from the Psychic Jordan looks a bit like Arch Sloan at that time period and from what I have read he lived in Southfield at the time. I often wondered why more Psychic’s were not brought into the case. To me it seems like this guy Jordan did a lot of reading and research before he hooked up with Robertson.

    Thank you,

    Jeremy

  2. KP says:

    Wow, I’m surprised Robertson gave all that information.

    A couple of thoughts
    1. Has anyone in LE ever cross checked everyone in 1976-1977 that owned a 1966-1967 Pontiac Tempest? Cars didn’t last forever back then, I can’t imagine that a ton of people owned a decade old blue Pontiac Tempest. If Secretary of State has registration info from that year, I would think it would be fairly easy to run that data against people that have been suspects. Its just interesting that for 2 of the children, the 1967 Pontiac Tempest was mentioned, yet that was not a suspected vehicle at the time.

    2. It was noted how odd it was that there was so many months between Mark and Jill. Has anyone checked to see who was overseas or in jail during that time (or part of that time). It is odd they would wait 9 months or whatever then strike 3 times fairly quickly. Or was Papa Busch in town those months so the house wasn’t available during that time?

  3. JN says:

    After reading much of this , the profile of the suspect fits to a T who I continually feel was the perpetrator. The medical examiner thinking a possible sex toy was used on the male victims, and Hastings ex girl friend said he had a dildo wrapped in plastic. Kinda odd. Said the suspect could have been abused as a child. Hastings was abused by his father and abused by school mates. Said the suspect had a strong possibility to have been institutionalized. It’s very well documented that Hastings has been in and out of mental institutions. Said the suspect was a loner, little association with peer groups. Hastings was a known loner with very few friends.
    How many coincidences does there have to be before people will raise an eyebrow?

    • Alpena Witness says:

      JN;

      You and I seem to agree with so much on this case. I will tell you with absolute certainty that when I heard this discussion I heard him talk about using an object after death on the boys it never made any sense to me. It was such a bizarre discussion to begin with and to hear him describe that raised it up even a few more notches above bizarre and beyond reality. I remember having several discussions with Helen over the years afterward on what it means. I asked if John ever explained why he did that. She stated he never explained why to her but she suspected he was abused so it symbolized just that. Well that was just speculation from her and I found out later that it was suggested by someone else as a possibility.

      I was always puzzled with the significance of the object after death and it never made any sense to me until the Chris Busch suspect came into being with the sketch of Mark left at the scene. John being the artist he was … suddenly it’s like OK, simulating anal sex with the boy victims and hunting the same grounds as Busch and leaving a sketch at his murder. Bingo! If done this way it sure threw the cops off the wrong trail all of these decades. Someone (The killers) wanted the police hot on Busch’s trail which they did. They caught up with them alright and the cover up began. Busch and Greene even admitted it an unreal way that, “hey you caught us”. We’ve always dreamed of doing this. Come on give me a break! Seems like also with the kids bathed and finger nail cleaning as they did for forensic purposes that it seems odd that still here we are with some hairs left behind. Something doesn’t add up here! If the OCCK traces once on TV described are accurate that a separate unique white animal hair and separate unique carpet fiber were found on each victim (What are the odds?), it seems like they were placed like another thing done after cleaning and after death just like the object used on the boys. Is there even a remote possibility that these killer kids were playing games and threw everyone off their trail and has caused the investigation to be barking up the wrong tree all of these years? I will say that if the hair is ever found to be unrelated in Sloan’s car to the other suspects, which is what I suspect, someone really needs to be explaining the history of Sloan’s car more than what has been done so far.

      Hastings could have left so many false trails for the cops to go down that he could easily be bragging about this at a restaurant and probably was the case. Throw a few things off on the case (Like chicken bone) so they can never pin him completely. Helen was the perfect shield for no one to ever consider him a suspect again. Looks like someone threw away the polygraph conclusions to hide all the embarrassment.

      Anyway, beyond pondering on things. It does seem that this report of Robertson supplements well with Tim’s autopsy report where Dr. Spitz is describing things that sure hint to an object used after death and also goes along with the old Lou Gordon article where Dr Tanay whom worked with Dr. Spitz sure hints to something similar.

      If the sketch left at Busch’s murder was more known at the time, maybe this thing would have been figured out. But there was already a huge cover up going on behind Chris Busch to begin with and many cops probably thought that he might have been the OCCK back at that time before and after he was murdered.

      Still would like to know the truth where ever that leads us.

      • Anonymous says:

        Helen told me that she thought the object was a toothbrush holder. Somewhere along the line, John Hastings told her that he and his brothers used to get abused by old man Hastings in a such a way when he was mad at them.

        By the way, why haven’t the Hastings sued Helen or even Cathy for dragging their family name into these killings? Hastings older sister worked for Geoffrey Fieger for years at his offices.

        • Alpena Witness says:

          Helen told me it was a tooth brush holder as well on numerous occasions and was further confirmed in the FOIA docs as Helen claimed. What I was referring to is the discussions I had with Helen I asked why did John do this or shall I say why did he include this. In other words, what is the meaning behind it because Helen always thought there was deep meaning behind everything. One of her flaws to this whole thing in my opinion. So that was why I asked her as it always seemed very strange to me. She said that John never told her specifically and I had brought that up numerous times though the years including when Busch became a suspect. As far as her speculations. Yes she did talk about Mr. Hastings being very mean and suspected John might have been abused. Helen always thought the McKinney murder was done by Mr. Hastings. Another thing she thought might have happened was John was abused someway at Brother Rice school.

          As far as Helen being sued. That has always been a debate. With all that’s been documented with the police investigation into John, I think it would be very difficult for Mary to deny the discussions and map drawing he did although she tried some on America’s Most Wanted website at one time. She first claimed that was all fabricated by Helen. My first interaction with her was on there where she denied I could hear their discussions along with other nonsense. She almost wrote like she was at the Big Boy with them that night. So much of it was complete bull from her. Much of that was deleted at the time and probably a good thing on her part. All too much is now been documented in FOIA papers to deny it including a very flawed polygraph test. I believe Geoffrey Fieger would never want to touch it! I wonder if Mary tried to approach him with it at one time? I bet she did!

      • JN says:

        Alpena witness, I’ve been intrigued by your witness by the Hastings confession for a number of years . It’s one thing to discredit Helen, but it’s another discrediting another. Now Of course there is a possibility that Hastings could have possibly misled Helen;however, it’s not to get a damn hamburger from Helen. That’s a crock of shit. Hastings wasn’t that destitute. There’s just too many coincidences with Hastings. Why would Hastings ex think that he could have been the killer? Is it a coincidence that he lived two streets over from Busch? They were the same age and living that close and yet he denied knowing Busch. Hastings younger brother Mike delivered papers to the Busch home. Hastings lived very close to the proximity to Hunter Maples pharmacy. What’s the chances of him ever going there? I’d say 100% . Whats the chances of a Sloan joy riding , looking for a child in March 16, 1977 at 8:30pm behind Hunter Maple? What’s the probability? Who was more likely to have been there that night? Hastings or Sloan? Pretty easy answer if you ask me. There’s also logic that has to be considered in these cases

        • Alpena Witness says:

          JN;

          Thanks it’s been a challenge. I’ve had people accusing me of so many things thru the years. I’ve only tried to set people straight that the discussions took place. Other than that, yes there seems to be so many coincidences wrapped around Hastings. Just too many to ignore. But with a vast circus of so many suspects and so much wild speculations. Much of it with no bounds of reality, what does one do with this? I’ve got problems with postmortem sex and how that fit’s in with the scheme of Busch / Lawson etc. and the likes except that someone maybe tried to make it look like it was for examiners to pick up on it. Only thing is that they also picked on it being after death. So these 20 year kids weren’t exactly forensic geniuses but they sure were conscience of it as far as finger nail cleaning and bathing but I guess that is even been challenged.

          FYI there was no hamburger involved in fact no food the time I was there. Just cigarettes and coffee. Lots of it! Helen later told me they would spend hours on end with just coffee refills for the entire night.

          Let’s hope the truth takes this somewhere someday. To be honest with you, I don’t care where it leads to so long at it’s the truth with some kind of proof.

          • JN says:

            I’m with you that just wanting this case solved is what everyone wants. How can Hastings polygraph reading back in 2009 be ignored? Because let there be no mistakes here. The results have been ignored. Hastings is alive and he’s a suspect. PROVE EVERYONE wrong. There wasn’t two separate murderers with these kids. There might have been two people involved , but these cases were done by the same perpetrator. Kristine was killed a month before Tim. They were done by the same person. Let’s get real here people. Kristine lived within 5 miles from Tim. The killer lived within that vicinity. Sheldon and Richards , didn’t do these murders . They were sick pedophiles but they didn’t abduct and murder . They liked boys. What about the two girls? Sheldon and Richards had little boys brought to them. Do you think a millionaire is going to go out in the dead winter looking for kids? Busch, Lamborghine, Sloan had a history and a record of molesting children. Why didn’t they kill before our Oakland county kids? Why all of a sudden did they decide to murder our kids? Doesn’t add up.

            • Alpena Witness says:

              JN;

              Agree so whole heartedly as it sure does not add up!

              The case has never seemed to fit the pedo ring to me either (nor Helen) but here we are years later and most people are still trying to fit it in that mold. (Documentaries and authors galore as well!) I believe now that it’s linked to it but not in the way people think. Hastings and Busch are connected someway but ‘how’ is the question. Hastings is still alive (maybe?) and could have the answers but will always be ignored because of Helen and her history. Here we are decades later still talking about it with a failed polygraph with strong recommendations that was never suppose to be known!

              A few more things to add.

              The thing I remember the most of the discussions was John really made a big deal about this friendship he had with these children. It sounded pathetic how he forced these kids to be his friend before he killed them. It seemed so unreal but at the same time he put so much emotion in it. Really hard to describe but that was how it went down in my memories. Doesn’t really fit the pedo ring exactly. So maybe John was making all of that stuff up? But at the same time putting so much emotion and drama in it for his story telling? That was what was so stunning and jaw dropping about it as I heard him talk. The problem was the main story line could never mean anything real to me at the time.

              He was constantly describing these children where I couldn’t keep track. But one of them he liked the most absolutely. She never talked out of hand and they got along the best. This had to be Kristine! Years later when Helen finally talked to Debbie over things, the one thing that stood out was Kristine was warm and friendly personality basically easy going. Exactly as John seem to describe her previously from the little bit I remember. The other thing that Debbie told Helen was that Kristine was very much a girlish girl and really didn’t have the boyish traits. I guess this pedo ring led by Busch must have overlooked all of that some way as she was kept the longest. Hardly makes any sense. Also if Jill really did have premonitions of being shot in the head as the rumors seem to be revealed from her mother, she must have really opened up about it to this pedo ring for them to know. So it’s not just the girls don’t fit the crime as they propose but really don’t fit in the scenario either. But they can still stretch things and known I guess that Greene liked girls kind of makes it possible with some added imagination.

              Yes I wish there was some type of resolution in all of this but I highly

        • Anon says:

          Hunter-Maple Pharmacy was three miles from Hastings’ house, on the other side of downtown Birmingham. Two other pharmacies were half that distance, on Hastings’ side of town. Unless Hastings had a job or commute that regularly took him by there, or a friend who lived nearby, it seems unlikely he would be very familiar with Hunter-Maple Pharmacy. Perhaps he did.

          For comparison, Busch’s brother Charles lived about a half mile from Hunter-Maple Pharmacy.

          What are the chances someone was joyriding or just hanging out at Hunter-Maple or behind Chatham grocery store, looking for a random, unaccompanied young boy to pick up at 8:30 p.m. on a school night in March?

          I think it is more likely someone arranged with Tim, or someone overheard him earlier telling a friend he was going to go back, or someone lived/worked/had a friend in the neighborhood and saw Tim when he was skateboarding on his way to Hunter-Maple. I am not saying Chris Busch was the abductor.

          By arranged, I mean someone could have seen him in the afternoon on his skateboard in the parking lot and said something like, hey, you’re good at that, I have a cool skateboard I don’t use anymore, I have to be back by here tonight and can bring it if you’d like. That is the kind of thing a kid might keep to himself so that no one puts the kibosh on it.

          It is horrific, and this is all speculation, but perhaps speculation will awaken a memory, even a fragment of one, in someone.

          • JN says:

            I know exactly where Hastings lived. I also know for a fact that he’s been at Hunter Maples as well. He was with his brother and that kid when he fell from the tower there. 3 miles is 3 miles. There’s no question that there was a large probability that he could have frequented Hunter Maple. Let’s not fool our selves either. Hastings looked more like the composite by the witnesses seen talking to Timmy than any other of the suspects. I mean looked like the composites to a T from back then. Chris Busch sure didn’t look like the composites. Busch was a fat slob. A Grizzly Adams type. I couldn’t picture one person going with that sick fuck. Busch is no longer with us. We have to go with what we have left. All we have left is Sloan, Lamborghine, Gunnels and Hastings. Sloan and Lamborghine were big time molesters prior to our kids being murdered. Why didn’t those two kill children before our kids? Did they all of a sudden say” hey let’s NOW kill Oakland county kids”. Plus those two likes boys . Not girls .

            • cathybroad says:

              When you are a child hunter, it’s a straight shot from Bloomfield Village to Quarton Lake, where a bunch of kids played. Continue on the straight shot to Hunter Maple, the old Adams School playground and Poppleton Park. March 16, 1977, was a beautiful, very unseasonably warm day and kids were out everywhere. Grizzly Adams tried to hit up an 11-year-old riding his bike on our street before Tim was abducted. Had to have been Busch–as you say, he was a distinctive-looking slob. Of course Hastings had been to Hunter-Maple Pharmacy and that entire little strip mall area before. Lamborgine tried to hit on a young person working at Monahan’s Beef Buffet which was in that strip mall during the relevant time period. Josiah Tazalaar’s brother lived in Birmingham. Chris Busch’s older brother lived across from Poppleton Park. These guys were all over Birmingham. Three miles was nothing. A boy came forward after Tim’s body was found and told police a man approached him in that same very same parking lot the day before Tim was abducted. With a big parking lot behind the stores and no houses facing the lot, and a direct shot to Woodward Avenue, it was perfect for these freaks.

            • Anon says:

              Clarification: the 14 year old boy died at the water tower near Lahser and Maple, a few lots from Hastings’ house, not at the water tower behind Hunter-Maple Pharmacy.

              • Alpena Witness says:

                Correct – His name Anthony Mitchell

              • JN says:

                Correct Anthony Mitchell and John and Tom Hastings were with him when he allegedly fell.

                • Alpena WItness says:

                  JN;

                  For the sake of discussion. Did you know the Hastings on a personal level? What’s your take on the Anthony Mitchell case? Was there really a deep hatred towards GM rich kids (Mitchell & Busch) possibly from the Hastings?

                  • JN says:

                    I didn’t know Hastings on a personal level; however at one time he lived within 10 minutes from me when he lived in LK Orion. Hastings and his brother Tom was with Anthony Mitchell when Mitchell fell from the tower. Theory has it that Hastings had envy for others because of his lack of success in life. Whether that’s accurate or not, I’m not 100% on that. Reason being Tim King was really the only child out of the OCCK case that was from a well to do family. I personally feel Hastings couldn’t relate to his peer groups. He failed to mature and grow emotionally and related to children more. The reason he kept the kids for as long as he did. He had access to keeping them. He lived alone in one of his parents homes . Hastings was abused as a kid. Daddy Hastings put it to him. He was also picked on and beat up at Brother Rice. He’s been in and out of mental institutions since the murders. I believe currently he’s in one in Georgia or Florida.

                    • Alpena Witness says:

                      Running out of space on this thread. Just want to state that the little I know of what you describe is quite accurate. Much is in the FOIA papers. Mom say’s he never had any friends, etc. etc.

                      The thing I remember the most was the haunting discussions he had with Helen and their was emphasis on this friendship he had with these children. Very freaky and creepy how he talked about it. Something that Helen didn’t seem to hit on as much as I do. Even though it goes against the common belief of the case, that is how I remember it. That is what I could really sense and remember the most. At the very least it was story telling with lots of drama put into it. Seemed like he was really blowing off steam talking about it. He must have spent hours rehearsing it beforehand if that is really the case! Which was one thought I had that night listening to him.

                      How that polygraph conclusion/recommendation can be ignored after all of this time is very puzzling. I still wonder if this deep feeling of friendship he had of these children in his memories somehow came thru on questioning him someway with the poly? Something sure became evident to them (Duncan & his boss) base on their conclusions.

                • Judi Coltman says:

                  And that water tower was located directly across the street from Hastings’ home. It has since been demolished.

                  • JN says:

                    Wrong water tower. It was the one in Hunter Maple parking lot. Where Timmy was abducted. Another coincidence

                    • Judi Coltman says:

                      Wish I could post the link but I can’t so I’ll retype the pertinent text from one of the many articles about it. “Police said that it appeared Anthony Mitchell, 14, of 420 Martell, Bloomfield Hills fell from the tower, at Lahser and West Maple near Oakland Hills Country Club.” I also have an article about the towers demolishment.

                    • cathybroad says:

                      Judi, can you refresh my recollection—did John tell Helen he pushed this kid to his death or did Helen surmise this given what John said? I recall Helen posted that John did not attend the boy’s funeral but maybe his brother Tom did?

                    • Judi Coltman says:

                      This was from the Free Press Sept., 1966

  4. camfaults says:

    Is there a website or post that lists all the LE officers (from the responding officers up the chain to good old Brooks Patterson) that bungled the four cases?

    • cathybroad says:

      I am working on that. There are names in the various “manuals” and documents listing the names of all of the various cops who were working on the task force. Cops, prosecutors, judges. Who they were then and what they went on to do and where they ended up.

      I want a list of every single employee (not just cops) of the Birmingham Police Department in 1977 and 1978. And Berkley and Bloomfield Township/Village PD and the OCP as well and I intend to get them. There has got to be a person with a conscience who worked at those places. Maybe not one of the cops who took “his” files when he left (those files don’t belong to you, asshole, they are public records!) and keeping them where no one could access them. Writing the next To Kill a Mockingbird or big screen play? FUCK. YOU. Cutting your losses after the big fail? Such a betrayal.

      Again, someone at one of these agencies who is still alive has to have a conscience. But that may be asking for too much.

  5. robertjkenney52 says:

    One question I’ve been wondering about, did LE (or anyone) produce a full sample of the carpet using the trace fibers found on the victims? What would that look like?

    I agree with Alpena witness that the fibers and other trace evidence found on the kids comes from late in their captivity.

    The carpet fibers would likely be from the location where they were being held.

    Could any of the many witnesses and victims interviewed by Cory Williams recognize that carpet?

    Bob Kenney

  6. Bob Kenney says:

    One question I have is was there a full swatch or full carpet developed to see what that would look like to a potential witness or victim, especially some of the many interviewed by Cory Williams.?

    I agree with Alpena witness that the majority of the trace evidence found on the kids comes from late in their captivity. Therefore, the fibers were from the location where they were held captive.

    Bob Kenney

  7. Paul Jolliffe says:

    Why were “Sgt. Newcomb and Egger” coming in with information on Richard Lawson in May of 1977, a full twelve years before Lawson would murder Exavor Giller in 1989 (and 27 years before Cory Williams would track down Lawson’s claimed insider knowledge of the “Michigan Snow Killings” in 2004?)

    Why did Robertson specifically note Lawson’s name in 1977?
    Had Lawson already tipped off Detroit P.D.’s Ike McKinnon about his knowledge of the Cass Corridor connection to the case?
    Had McKinnon then tipped off Robertson, who wanted verification from Newcomb and Egger?

    • Paul Jolliffe says:

      Isn’t Lawson’s name in Robertson’s 1977 notes a sign that Lawson really did have some kind of insider knowledge about the case, just as he would later claim to police in Pennsylvania in 2004?

      I’d be surprised if Lawson knew everything in 1977, but I’ll bet he was on to something.

  8. Anonymous says:

    I wonder why Interpol would be involved this early in the case and was the other psychic mentioned Gerald Richards who was interviewed in prison by the task force

    • RD1 says:

      I’m guessing, but the idea that missing children from USA or UK might have been transported to Europe for exploitation in commercial CSA images industry, was becoming popular in law enforcement by the late 1970’s. Tragic Martin Allen’s father (missing 1979) was convinced that was his son’s fate, at one time, a possibility no doubt suggested to him by some investigator.
      “The Sadness Behind a Santa’s Smile” quotes Mr. Allen; “I think our son was kidnapped by a gang of child pornographers. I think he was spirited away to some overseas country and forced to take part in films”.
      There was no evidence to support such theories, it was all rumor, and perhaps an ‘escape hatch’ fantasy for police investigators working cases with NOTHING to go on, no evidence period. “Might have been taken to Europe for the kiddy film industry”, a nothing burger to offer parents rather than; “we have no idea, what happened to your child”.

  9. robertjkenney52 says:

    P.paul,

    I’m thinking the same way as to the Richard Lawson mention along with Ike McKinnon, Detroit’s chief of police and head of the sex crimes unit.

    McKinnon considered Lawson a reliable snitch in the child sex crimes arena.

    I suspect that Lawson’s name was given to Robertson by McKinnon.
    I could only think of 3 reasons.
    1) perhaps he suspected Lawson was involved with these crimes
    2) Perhaps he thought with Lawson’s background, he could provide some general information (someone good to talk to).
    3) He thought Lawson had specific information on the crimes. This is what I lean toward.
    Lawson did in fact provide specific info in later years.

    This time frame where he gets mentioned is only 2 months after Tim’s killing. He might have known something early on.

    Robertson contacted Interpol after he came up with the idea that the OCCK killers could be involved in pornography/snuff film productions. He felt the marketing of these types of films would be done internationally, therefore Interpol.
    There was no further mention of this.

    Bob Kenney

    • RD1 says:

      “Robertson contacted Interpol after he came up with the idea that the OCCK killers could be involved in pornography/snuff film productions. He felt the marketing of these types of films would be done internationally, therefore Interpol”
      My intuition was correct, then (see above).

      “involved in pornography/snuff film productions” – always, always, always, that fantasy – the one that some people just cannot be happy or lead productive lives, without believing it is somehow secretly a TRUE FACT, and promoting the idea! Pornography involving children? Oh, right, and SNUFF FILMS! that never existed, that there was never any evidence of, that there is STILL no evidence of having existed circa 1965-1995.

      Ed Sanders is largely responsible for disseminating the snuff film fantasy, throughout the US, post 1970 – through his pointless collection of gossip, rumors & lies titled “The Family”.
      Those of us who have been waving the red flag, about promoting fantasies and falsehoods involving torture and murder of children, could never overcome the obsessive desire some people hold for WANTING it to be true. Sick, sick, sick.
      “Someday, your rumor-mongering about such fantasies is going to inspire depraved, mentally ill persons to act it out!”, we have warned.
      And here’s a horrific example, of exactly that!
      Dean Ashley Lambey, and Daniel Depew;

      https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/590882/united-states-v-dean-a-lambey/

  10. Anon says:

    I am not a psychic believer. I am open to the possibility.

    With an open mind an idea popped up from a few of the psychic’s impressions, including some about Mark Stebbins, that are in the report in the Robertson pdf:

    – a white step van, a person in uniform, perhaps a delivery service, a sense or smell of a bakery, and someone within eyeshot when Mark’s body was found. Maybe something about water.

    Wonder Bread and Taystee Bread delivered goods in white step vans and in white trucks. Their drivers wore uniforms. The vehicles might blend in because people were used to seeing them, especially around businesses. There was a Wonder Bread factory in what is now the Motor City Casino building, 2901 Grand River Ave., Detroit, half a mile or less from the Cass Corridor. The plant closed in 1985.

    I was not and am not trying to make the psychic or any of this fit in. After reading the report, the idea of a bakery delivery truck occurred to me. I looked into it and found this information.

    I am putting this out here in case it stirs any memories or other ideas.

    • Judi Coltman says:

      I am open to the possibility and not willing to dismiss anything at this point. And a bread truck delivering to a grocery store is not unusual.

  11. Judi Coltman says:

    Cathy- Helen surmised Hastings pushed Mitchell based on other things he told her but never copped to it. He did say his family attended the funeral but he did not go. I also believe, and maybe Alpena remembers, his mother either gave piano lessons or babysat for Mitchell when he was younger but I can’t currently find anything on this.

    • Alpena Witness says:

      Judi;

      I Agree. My understanding from reading and possibly talking to Helen, was that she surmised this given what John said. In other words John never came out and admitted directly to that one. I guess it was the way he described things to Helen and such that she got that impression. Unlike the OCCK victims themselves where he did admit to the murders. Unfortunately I don’t remember any of Mitchell details discussed from that night but I only heard maybe about an hour’s worth of their discussion. Helen did at one time write in detail about Mitchell and some type of Hastings family connection as far as neighbors but don’t remember any details. Possibly babysitting or something on those regards. Helen did make contact with some of Hastings other neighbors at one time or another where she might have got some of her information. I believe Michell’s water tower was also marked on one of John’s maps and labeled although I can’t find that right now. Which is kind of weird like it had some type of significance to the OCCK.

      • Alpena Witness says:

        BLK 00885 – Very top of page below Big Beaver on map to the left of Popleton. Second water tower dot it’s labeled (TONY MITCHELL) WATER TOWER. Must be important to the OCCK case as Danto name is on there as well.

        • Judi Coltman says:

          Thank you. Just looked it up. Yes, the big dot represents the water tower where Mitchell fell and the two smaller dots represent the two Hastings homes across the street from the water tower on Tuckahoe at Lahser and Maple – thanks for directing me to the page.

          • Alpena Witness says:

            I remember when I thumbed thru the FOIA docs that they (investigators) first couldn’t find anything related to a water tower accident. They thought Helen was making things up like everything else. Eventually they did find old reports of Anthony Mitchell but there it is right on John’s map.

            What always struck Helen as strange was that the psychic covered in Robertson’s report above and in the book Wolf Sheep’s Clothing was that ‘water towers’ seemed to be a major part of the OCCK activities someway or some kind of significance to him. To find so many of them in John’s maps is mind boggling. I can see why the police thought John was inspired by that book in his story telling and map drawing but Helen stated the maps were drawn way before John had the book or even knew about it. I guess Don Studt had mentioned it to Helen and she special ordered it thru the library. I can only say there was no book on their table the night I saw them because if there was, I would surely be focusing on it trying to figure out what it was if it was sitting there.

  12. Judi Coltman says:

    Since there’s a discussion of Hastings and the home (s)… here is something I found from our 2006 discussion of the parents divorce and off loading their houses.

    Hastings, Sr and Mother Hastings sold 234 Tuckahoe on Nov. 17, 1978. Both signed off on the sale (as did Senior’s new wife).

    Busch’s body was discovered around the corner on Morningview on Nov. 20, 1978 but it appeared he had died a few days earlier.

    Another timing coincidence?

    • JN says:

      That’s a pretty big coincidence Busch being killed “ I mean him killing him self” a few days after the Hastings homes being sold is another of many coincidences. When does the coincidences start becoming fact.? When or why hasn’t Hastings been interrogated for failing his polygraph? I don’t get why they don’t answer to these coincidences with them. Clear him. Make it where people will not consider him a suspect . Why can’t they do that? It’s like why ignore two victims DNA IN a Sloan car. Just dismiss this? Is that proper FBI procedures? Gunnels hair on KM? Just let him go on his marry way.? Oh he doesn’t know how His hair ended up on a girl that’s been murdered. Just ignore these 3 society rejects . 3 suspects that are no doubtably connected to this case. THEY DONT WANT THIS CASE SOLVED

      • Judi Coltman says:

        I think your final sentence sums it up.

      • Alpena Witness says:

        It is absolutely crazy to think all these pedo creeps worked together on these OCCK victims. There might be organized crime out there like maybe the mafia but look at these creeps. Hairs found that don’t seem to relate to each other. Maybe the focus should had been on the postmortem sex and how the bodies were manipulated to look like Busch was involved. Can someone ever find the original sketch found at Busch murder and determine DNA/finger prints with new forensics? Someone planted and made it look like the entire pedo establishment was involved. Possibly someone that knew and had inside workings? Maybe those traces of unique animal hair and unique carpet strand per victim hints at manipulation as well? Did the killer try to make the evidence point to something and mutiple people? Can’t they determine the DNA on the animal hairs? Was there really 4 different animal types? One per victim? Can’t they find that out? There is evidence left to find something. Isn’t there? Do the people that study forensics ever get a chance to study real cases? If MSP is never going to do anything, how about handing it over to someone that may.

        • cathybroad says:

          The mafia is better than this. And better than the cops. AW, the original of the drawing of the screaming boy was apparently destroyed in the “ordinary course of business,” as were the ropes found in Busch’s closet. There is nothing in the records indicating the drawing was tested for fingerprints (the standard back in the day). An astute reader noticed from a FOIA document that the ropes had been returned to the Bloomfield Township PD. The same PD that gave H. Lee Busch a handwritten “receipt” for the K-Mart rifle used to put a bullet between Busch’s eyes. The rifle was returned to H. Lee, who apparently wanted it back for . . . ?? When I had an attorney make a FOIA request for the Busch suicide file with Bloomfield PD in early December 2007, they responded that the file was destroyed long ago. A reporter later obtained that suicide file.

          This is a decades’ old, uncleared serial homicide of four pre-teens. The evidence was handled in a way that I believe makes plain what the MSP’s intentions were–to make sure this case never got solved. You don’t ditch or lose evidence in an open homicide, especially one that was nationally publicized and funded by millions of dollars in grant and tax payer monies. You don’t get to claim your normal evidence retention standards meant it was ok to destroy or return evidence in a case that is anything but “normal.”
          As of January, I have asked that the case be taken from the MSP. Response from Michigan officials? Silence. That’s how they roll. They don’t say, or do, shit.

          • Alpena Witness says:

            I guess most of this I already should know. As far as the sketch when that was last discussed, I thought it was noted the 2007 date and it might have just been checked out and possibly misplaced? Maybe just wishful thinking on my part. Sounds quite hopeless and that you and your family has done everything you can possibly do. I’m still very disappointed that MSP can’t respond with something and make an attempt at doing something. If anything else there is new forensic technology but that sure can’t overcome stuff thrown away and/or misplaced. Nothing in the world can fix that.

            • JN says:

              I know it’s been 44 years since Timmy was abducted, but I’m curious . Does anyone know if Doug Wilson or the other two witnesses seen the suspect talking to Timmy , has seen photographs of Hastings? Or any other suspect for that matter. Maybe the photos could trigger his memory. I think I would remember something of that significant importance.


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