The original OCCK internet sleuths

By way of review for some and background for others, in March 2001 Todd Matthews, then Cold Cases Moderator/Media Director for the Doe Network and Outpost for Hope, posted on the internet about his discussions with Helen Dagner about the OCCK case.

The updates on this blog-before-blogging continued through 2003. They are worth a read or a reread. SAME SHIT 20 YEARS LATER.

For more on Todd Matthews, see, e.g., https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-doe-network-websleuthing-cold-cases-with-todd-matthews/id1244959034?i=1000506766346. Helen had gone to Alpena police in January 1992 with her information; they contacted the Oakland County sheriff’s department (the department that says they have zero records in the OCCK–please contact the state police), who then contacted Birmingham PD Commander Don Studt. Within a few months time, they would shut this lead down using their favorite method when all else fails to make a lead go away–a polygraph (concerning only the homicide of Tim King).

Anyone who had dealings with Helen, knows that she was tenacious (among many other adjectives). The police blew her off, but she didn’t go away. She connected with Mr. Matthews and then by 2006 (and probably long before) was posting information about this and other cases on HelenDagner.com. She also participated in a Topix thread on the OCCK case from 2007 (if not before). One reader accurately posted on February 15, 2007: “It seems as though the internet forums on this OCCK case are more unfriendly and vicious than even the Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald case forums, or the JonBenet case forums.”

I learned about Helen’s suspect John in 2005. I called Commander Don Studt at Birmingham PD and asked about this lead. He told me there was nothing to it and that Helen was crazy. I was not reassured by the phone call. I contacted an old friend who had been a police officer, a police chief, a private investigator and a polygrapher. He said yeah, someone can be crazy and still be right. He agreed to review any documents I could send him about the case. I compiled what I had and sent it off. Most of you know this part of the story, too–he arrived at the polygraph conference in Las Vegas a day after lying polygrapher Larry Wasser had his little excited utterance incident with polygrapher Patrick Coffey. If that wasn’t the Universe telling these fucks in Michigan that the case needed to be addressed honestly and directly, I can’t think of another method for doing so. This was in July 2006.

By early December of the following year we knew that suspect Chris Busch had lived at 3310 Morningview Terrace and that suspect John Hastings lived at 200 Tuckahoe (the family owning homes at 200 and 202 Tuckahoe, less than .5 miles from the Busch home in Bloomfield Village). But police upon hearing these hoofbeats thought zebras, not horses. It’s just a coincidence you silly girl!

The Michigan State Police and the Oakland County Prosecutor were in possession of Chris Busch’s records for 29 years at this point, yet neither said or did anything. John Hastings’ name was known to state police as of June 17, 1977 and later to the Oakland County Sheriff as of the end of January 1992 and then the Birmingham PD in February 1992.

Allow me to jump through the hoops that demonstrate the redacted name is John’s. Despite the fact that the only reason Chris Busch’s name resurfaced as an OCCK suspect was through the efforts of my family, law enforcement kept us at bay. We had every (naive) reason to believe that the MSP and the OCP would advance the investigation and cooperate with us. Instead, we were met with resistance (MSP and OCP) and threats (Jessica Cooper and Paul Walton, OCP). Both my dad and my brother filed FOIA requests with these agencies and they resisted, necessitating litigation. But take a look at my brother’s Request for Public Records, page 2, No. 28, which asks for “[a]ll notes or other documents related to the individual or individuals examined in Georgia or Alabama in 2009.”

The state police provided a 3,000-plus page response after the litigation against them was filed. It was the deck of cards thrown on the floor along with some illegal and, in my opinion, incriminating, redactions. Nevertheless, my dad seemed satisfied with the response. The response included probably hundreds of redacted pages concerning the man in Georgia. The redactions were completely negated by the coversheets in two different notebooks that said: “John Hastings,” followed by his paper history with police in this case. He was Helen’s suspect; he was the man investigated a second time in 1992.

By the way, the man in Alabama was Douglas Bennett, now a registered sex offender, who was arrested in Flint while Chris Busch and Greg Greene were being investigated in January 1977 for child rape and possible participation in the murder of Mark Stebbins. I don’t even think Bennett’s name was redacted. But then again, he didn’t grow up in the one-square-mile enclave, Bloomfield Village–those boys get redactions. Just another coincidence–he was younger than Busch and Greene, but was in the Flint jail for pedophelia, same as Busch and Greene–that’s why Doug’s name was in the newspaper with these other two animals. No big deal, nothing to see here.

Finally, I’m sure that the Request 28 was made because police would respond to our requests for some kind of an update with–give us six more weeks, give us until we get back from Georgia and Alabama, don’t go to the press, we promise we will circle back to you. They have been telling us to sit on our hands, to cool it, to shut the fuck up since the Lamborgine/Lawson leads came to light in 2005/2006. So what the hell was the deal with your trip to the south?! If you won’t tell us, your FOIA response will.

Fast forward. My dad died. There are no answers. No one will test the evidence in this case for DNA using a third party lab. No one will update the families or the public about where this case stands and why. No one will even toss one of their bullshit statements any more about how it is an ongoing, active investigation.

You can draw any number of conclusions about this. One obvious conclusion is that the lives of these kids literally did not matter in the face of a bunch of sketchy shit in this investigation. You can’t pretend to feel bad about these hellish murders and try to defend the fucked up shit in this case. It cannot be done.

If we circle back to John, who was looked at yet again when he was polygraphed in Georgia, https://catherinebroad.blog/2021/04/28/john-hastings-2/, there are more zebras. The hoofbeats are horses, for god’s sake! No zebras in Bloomfield Village (not even at your child’s birthday party)! Todd Matthews raised questions about it 20 years ago. And here we are. As Mr. Matthews wrote twenty years ago: “The REACTION of local officials is even more shocking than the TIP is. I know now that even if this tip is not a valid tip, any actual tips that come in will likely never see the light of day.”


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14 thoughts on “The original OCCK internet sleuths”

  1. The scope of this still has the ability to knock me backwards. Even after Pedophile has become part of the national lexicon .We still can’t get to the bottom of this with definitive answers? Who the fuck is being protected ? Is the difference that our four where murdered in a snuff film and pedophile rings that busted just rape kids . These kids where sacrificed on a much bigger altar than we realize .Or maybe deep down all of us know ,that’s why it can’t really be solved and there will never be closure. We have to keep the light on.

    1. Helen asked me to look into previous owners of the what became of the address of the busch property in Birmingham. This was weeks before his info came out about the occk. I was a real estate agent at the time and had access to those type of records.

  2. People who move here are shocked not only about the case , but there is never anything in the news about the case.

  3. I was attacked in the summer of 1975 on the corner of Lincoln and Wyoming in Huntington Woods. I was able to escape my attacker. Of course, the corrupt HW police did nothing. My attacker was one of the Oakland County Child killers. and can still see and describe him perfectly. No one cares anymore but it damaged me in many horrible ways. I was 16 yrs. old.

    1. Interesting. I’d be interested in hearing which suspect, in your opinion, was your attacker.

      Did you know that at one time the Busch family lived on the corner of Lincoln and Newport in Huntington Woods? That is 0.3 miles away from your site. However, the family moved around 1970 or possibly earlier.

      The FOIA papers mentioned only once that Chris Busch lived in Huntington Woods (that I can remember). I am sure Huntington Woods city officials do not want anyone to ever remember this fact. Just like Birmingham and Bloomfield Hills, HW needs to cover up any involvement.

      H. Lee Busch was also once chairman of the local Boy Scout Troop committee in Huntington Woods.

      It looks like the Busch family was at 1016 North Maple in Royal Oak in 1940 for the birth of their first son. Then they were at 10705 Lincoln Road in Huntington Woods by 1942.

      The Snow Killings book mentioned they lived on Morningview Terrace in Bloomfield Hills from 1970 to 1979.

      1. This is the first time I have talked publicly about this. In my opinion and from clearly seeing his face, he had a widows peak, he was dark in coloring, extremely strong and he drove a 2-toned car. He tried to drag me into it. He had the back door open. Like a Monte Carlo.

        1. That sounds like Greg Greene, Christina. I am addressing your comments in a post I am working on right now. The criminal child sexual abuse case against the former archbishop of Washington was dismissed this morning when a Massachusetts judge ruled this 93-year-old POS was incompetent to stand trial. First no one believes underage victims. Then when a slew of similar allegations surface, they get pushed around like a bad meal on a big dinner plate. Then, by the time these old bastards get in the system, they are so old they get one year in jail (not prison) or declared incompetent. The entity/agency does the bare minimum, the offender gets his due process rights and/or leniency, and the victims . . . Why would anyone think for a minute that society cares?! And yes, Huntington Woods PD–corrupt then and some “graduates” of that PD, the OG cops who played by a much different set of rules–some are still making trouble in other agencies. HWPD and Berkley PD. The stories from that era are devastating.

        2. Thank you for providing this additional information. As hard as it may have been to discuss, I believe you are doing the correct thing. I believe there are also others that need to do the same. You may have just been the catalyst to bring them forward. I would also suggest you write down all the details you can remember before they get lost over time.

      2. He had very dark hair with a widow’s peak. He was very strong. He drove a 2-toned car like a Monte Carlo. He tried to drag me into it by my hair. This is very hard to talk about. He followed me as I walked home from my job at the old Big Boy that used to be at 10/Woodward. There were other witnesses to this.

  4. No one cares about the survivors. I am one of them. I was 16 yrs old. I am 64 now. A lifetime of carrying this shit inside me.

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