Consider again–

A reader recently commented about the possible involvement of the late ATF agent Robert Van Hengel in the OCCK crimes. Time to reconsider the post from June 15, 2022 (and definitely the comments as well). **To be clear, I am reposting the 2022 post because of the discussion of possible participation in the OCCK crimes by a law enforcement officer, not because Van Hengel is directly mentioned. But it is all worth reconsidering.

June 15, 2022

If you think the prosecutor, cops, polygraphers and politicians would never do something dirty in a case involving the murder of children, watch Exposed: The Ghost Train Fire on Netflix and get back to me.


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15 thoughts on “Consider again–”

    1. Are you the counselor who wrote about KP? I responded to one of your comments in the past couple of weeks explaining that I handed this off to a detective. KP and his mother were interviewed. Email me at OCCKtruth@protonmail.com and let’s get this straightened out. You seem to think I owe you a response. This is not productive. Email me and let’s get this over with one way or the other.

  1. Van Hengel was also an artist which makes me think he could be the one who did the drawing hanging on Busch’s wall.

  2. From what I read, the boys were sodomized post mortem. And with an object. Leaves the theory full of holes.

    Am I wrong?

    1. I believe you may be wrong. I’m not going to ruin the beginning of a brand new week by rereading the autopsy information on Mark and Tim, but here is my recollection. There is no express finding that Tim was sodomized with an object after death. There is discussion of that possibility due to the condition of his body and the lack of semen. This is from the transcript of the discussion Dr. Werner Spitz had with various cops who were present as he walked them through the condition of his body. It is not a conclusion, but rather discussed as a possibility. It’s like they are all standing there scratching their heads and talking.

      There is no such finding in the autopsy of Mark and there is no transcript of a discussion/walk through of the process. In fact the initial autopsy findings mention the presence of semen, but this is later refuted.

      This story gets more wheels when Helen Dagner, who may well have had access to this information about the possibility of postmortem defiling with an object from her cop pal from up north, tells police in 1992 that her suspect John had dildos in his apartment.

      I know it’s a lot easier to believe that the boys were not subjected to numerous sexual assaults while still alive, that the girls were in no way sexually abused, and that all four were “well fed.” Maybe that’s the truth, but I’m not buying it. They were fed simply to keep them alive during their captivity and to make them perhaps believe that the killer(s) were going to let them go home after their ordeal.

      As John is telling Helen his “story,” he says the sexual violation was postmortem to send a message “to Birmingham,” to people who needed a “wake up call.” Especially with Mark’s autopsy this is not supported. The notes indicate violent sexual assault.

      The killer(s) cleaned up the bodies to destroy any trace evidence. Even back in the dark ages semen could be used to detect blood type. The idea that a cop might be involved in the “detailing” of the bodies seems valid. Or someone who was sick enough to study crimes.

      This theory, like the statements by police early and often that there is virtually no evidence in this case!, and statements that the kids were placed in funereal position on roadsides in snow, does nothing to advance the inquiry.

      1. Oh. So many unknowns. Who can you believe is the question. But since we know politicians are crooked and the cops work for them, we’re left in the dark. Washington and Hollywood are full of pedos. No reason to believe local politics isn’t the same. Wolves in the fold. Shooting fish in a barrel.

      2. This is another one of those OCCK things where it seems like the real facts are not completely known so it’s still open for debate. I heard Helen’s suspect say this first hand to her which was shocking at the time and it’s something I’ve asked Helen many times over thru the years what did he mean by that?

        It’s also peculiar that the late forensic expert Dr. Emanuel Tanay that worked with Dr Spitz on Tim had a similar opinion or at least seemed like it in this very sensored (carefully worded) newspaper article where he was going to appear on Lou Gordon show.

        https://catherinebroad.blog/2019/09/30/lou-gordon-column-march-27-1977/

        No one ever responded to Cathy on this TV show because it’s believed it was never really aired and Lou Gordon died not too long after that. Is there still a taped interview somewhere in storage that no one has ever seen? Who knows?

        Anyone that has checked out Dr. Emanuel Tanay background it is very impressive along with his history and someone can correct me but I believe he has something to do with examining Kristine’s body as well.

        1. To maybe explain this a little further just so some may have an idea what I’m trying to state the link article above states the following;

          Experts were convinced the assailant “is a homosexual, probably not capable of performing a sexual act himself.”

          This sure does not sound like Chris Busch antics but this reads like the boys were sodomized post mortem with an object. It’s worded in such a way to get around newspaper standards from 1970s but makes it puzzling. I don’t know what else it could possibly mean and based on the comments from that post, no one else can come with anything. Perhaps the interview that Lou Gordon may have had was so sensored and eliminated from being aired at the time. Seems like no one has an answer, but I believe Dr. Tanay agreed to Dr Spitz on his observations. From what I remember from that autopsy report where Spitz is discussing his findings as he went along seems to go on those same lines and seemed reasonable how he concluded that.

          Why would someone use an object after death if that was the case? Some think it’s some type of sick witchcraft ritual. Helen always thought it was how his suspect was treated. I think you may want to ask the artist of that sketch if he can ever be determined. Because that sketch seems to try to illustrate torture in the same manner which may be what they were trying to show and that Busch was tied to it

          We will probably never know anything about it because they were chasing stained ropes instead of the sketch or ask questions on that and the polygraph from Georgia was completely buried to never see the light of day.

          1. It’s really not rocket science. Perhaps the OCCK in his mid 20s heard about the urban legend where if someone gets murdered under unusual conditions the first thing they examine is the rectum for signs of penetration for possible homosexual activity. So the OCCK was to take these children in the same hunting grounds that Chris Busch preyed. Use an object after death on the boys so that every cop will suspect its Chris Busch. Kind of waking up society to this underground filth so it’s a message to Birmingham alright! And it worked. Every cop in town was watching and after the third victim Chris Busch and partner were pulled in for questioning on the OCCK. Seems kind of unreal how they admitted to it so easily and even going as far as dreaming they would get their part time jobs to work around it or something like that. Then comes the 4th victim but Greene was already in jail at the time. So the urban legend that the killer went by really did work and here we are today where everyone is still looking at pedophiles and homosexuals that somehow are involved with this crime. Including on this very thread.

            The only thing is that Dr. Spitz was smart enough to detect something while examining Tim. With all the medical terms being bounced around he kept going back to what was so unusual and it puzzled him as he discussed this in the autopsy report where he’s talking to a staff while conducting his examination. He reflects back something so simple that everyone would understand which is changing the diaper on his own child and where the rectum returns to its normal state once penetrated. This is normal reaction when a body is alive. Evidently Tim’s did not. So his conclusion was penetration after death. Dr Tanay who was both a forensic expert along with psychiatrist would naturally perhaps look at it as someone getting some type of homo sexual pleasure out of it without doing the act. Or maybe just a way to describe it that way to a newspaper article but whatever the case they probably didn’t comprehend that it’s simulating a sexual act of torture.

            Many theories can go around this like maybe there was still activity before death which cannot be detected. I believe both Spitz and Tanay describe what they truly believe was the case during the examination and should have never been considered part of a cover up of any sort. Not to take away from the fact that a huge cover up was wrapped around everything involving Chris Busch. That is for certain.

            1. All of this just illustrates how pathetic this case really is and will go down in history as that.

              1) Here we are trying to figure out if the sketch left at Busch murder was the real sketch or a copy. No one seems to know and base on documents they never bothered to even ask the investigator that was involved back at the time (Busch residence). They discuss ropes but forgot to even mention the sketch which is probably the most important thing as it seems to be associated to OCCK (Mark). If the sketch was real with pencil marks and all it may provide evidence who the artist was (finger prints and other traces).

              2) Here we are again trying figure out what the meaning is behind an obscure expression in an old newspaper article over a TV show that was going to be aired and never was and no one seems to know what it means. The forensic expert Dr. Tanay who worked with Spitz was just down the street at Wayne State University for all of those years but no one ever bothered to ask him. He lived until 2014. The obscure expression may indicate the killer used an object after death which may change the motive of the case. Autopsy report with the detailed discussions with Dr. Spitz and a staff seem to imply the same thing.

              3) There is a polygraph test from Georgia which seems to reveal some details related to Busch and the OCCK murders. As covered on here numerous times, any trace or results of this polygraph test have mysterious disappeared without any explanation or accountability by anyone. Just a few things that came through the FOIA document avoiding redacted process seem to point to the importance of the conclusions to the OCCK case.

              1. Everything you mention Inquisitor indicates how dug in Brooks Patterson and the MSP were in making sure that this case never got “solved” and got as little exposure/oxygen along the way. It is not only pathetic, it is corrupt. Sure, there’s misfeasance and Keystone Cop action, but it is at its base, sheer corruption. It continues to this day as I am unable to get any answers about why the MSP and the state lab are resisting testing/retesting evidence by a third party lab, as they have in numerous other cold cases. (And don’t give me that bullshit that “the evidence has been tested so many times!” Yeah, by a lab without the sophisticated technology employed by cutting edge labs. By a lab that employed David Metzger and Charlotte Day. “But the evidence was so mishandled!” Too fucking bad. Try anyway. Dismiss DNA results attributable to cops, cops in training and lab workers and tell the public what you find.)

                As for Hastings’ polygraph materials from GA, this one really fries me. All somebody in LE had to do is pick up the goddamn phone and call Steve Duncan at GA Public Safety. But nobody does it. More time passes and allows a lot more leeway for the all-time favorite in this case: “Gee, it was a long time ago; I don’t recall.” Or here’s an idea–link this frozen cold case to the programs with WMU or MSU and get a college student to mine that disorganized excuse for a “case file room” for this and other missing evidence.

  3. WordPress commentary

    I think this “Juan” conjecture is disgustingly close to the reality. It is pointless to respond to specific conjectures when theory gets too detailed but the broad strokes ring very true.

    What Juan has not mentioned is the likelihood of significant involvement of multiple Catholic seminarians or others tied not only to the Catholic Maryglade Seminary but also high society Catholic influential families of which Frank Francis Duffield Shelden is a shining example.

    It is a stunning fact that the beautiful brand-new Maryglade seminary was built around 1960 and yet only ever saw two intakes of aspiring priests before it was mysteriously shut down by the church, undoubtedly on some pretext, but the highest probability is the pandora’s box of paedophiles which the OCCK killings would shine a light on – whether any priest was directly or indirectly involved – this horrific series of child murders and the fact that so many paedophiles obviously were at the seminary, (and I can name at least two from my lounge room in Australia and I’m sure there are many others) – but whether or not they knew a priest was involved, the OCCK investigations situation was getting too damn hot to handle.

    Again it is hearsay but lower ranked police have been quoted as mentioning a Catholic priest hastily and quietly sent out of the country at the period and I think this could easily have been JRT. Another fact in the background is that this priest John Robert Thwaytes had LEGAL valid passports with his photo in them correctly issued by the authorities but one was in a false fake different identity. I have photographs of his real and false passports dude by side!
    This false legal ID would give a man the opportunity to be in one country on one passport while legally appearing to have never left his homeland, in this case a small orphanage in India. He could have been raping children on North Fox Island (or murdering children in Detroit ) while on paper he was still in the jungle of West Bengal.
    My narrative is going to get very explicit in the following

    I give warning that you may be very disturbed to read what I’m going to tell you based upon many years of my life investigating a horror that I have uncovered in person!

    I have categoric proof that John Robert Thwaytes, (JRT) a seminarian from the 1960 intake, was a lifelong paedophile with direct connection to Frank Shelden! I have proof from years of my charity work involvement in India, that John JRT committed countless child sex crimes in an orphanage in India and is connected with at least two murders or unlawful killings there, of which he was never charged before he died. I have information about where he hid the bodies but India does not care about crime unless there is money to be made from a case.

    But let me underline that this man Father John Robert Thwaytes had a long history connected to Detroit – he was ordained a priest in Detroit and then sent to India and indeed his first orphanage trust registered to manage the Boys Town Malbazar Orphanage was actually called BOYS TOWN FERNDALE TRUST!

    Ferndale is the suburb where the body of Mark Stebbins was found just as a coincidence!

    NB This has nothing to do with the famous Boystown organisation, of course I do mean infamous.

    I have categoric proof that Frank Sheldon visited this Indian orphanage and Caesar School after he fled from the USA, visited on sex tourism multiple times and I have met men who were his victims and they have testified on video and given further information which has connected other international paedophiles including Dr Frits Bernard – (I have evidence of a group of three men visiting simultaneously, Frank Shelden, Frits Bernard, and a blind man, a teacher from the UK called Philip Lucas ) – with groups of innocent little children effectively fed to these men in the Guest House at the orphanage for long orgies.
    The victim Bappa mentioned a man called John Broger but so far I have been unable to identify if this is the famous religious zealot of that name, but I have grave suspicions.

    Language barriers and the long time that has passed meant that I could not get categoric information but there was no doubt whatever about the identity of Frank and Frits and I have photographic evidence to back it up.

    Dr Fritz Bernard was a shining light so the paedophiles of the world and his direct connection with the priest JRT and with Frank S ties him directly also to the north Fox Island paedophile subscriber cult – by which I mean people who may have been not connected with anything such as the murders But who were directly connected to the group of people who Frank Shelden allowed to go and visit that disgusting place.

    I think it is more than probable that priests from the seminary including JRT would have visited that place. It’s too long-winded to explain here but there is absolutely no doubt that JRT and Frank had a long relationship from the early 60s and that continuing connection up until Franks death, between Thwaytes and Shelden, is the only way that Frank ever could have located the obscure little orphanage in the Bengal jungle – because he had been in constant continuing contact ever since the priest began his five decades of child abuse under the cover of Catholic charity in that place.

    But how do I connect this to the OCCK? Aside from the fake passport and the fact that I know the priest was a killer? Apart from the sexualised ravings in his diary not forgetting his own facial similarity to the Police identikit sketches – I have previously provided multiple photographs of the priest around that age alongside of those sketches and the resemblance is very troubling but we cannot make assumptions just based on that.

    The suspicious closure of the seminary cannot be direct evidence but we know there were at least two predatory paedophiles in that place. We know that one of them was closely connected to Frank Shelden- Both of these men were millionaires or from billionaire old-money high society families. And I am saying that both of them were psychopaths.

    A British teacher volunteering in India was a witness to the visit of these men and he gave me a horrifying quote straight from the mouth of Frank which basically made mockery of the idea that the anal rape of boys was at all a damage to those children.

    I have video footage of that interview where he gave as close as possible to the exact phrases which left him shocked and reporting the English authorities of the child rescue international trust in England, which they ignored for nearly a year before finally taking some action. Inadequate action.

    JRT diary reflects a profile of a perfect fit to explain puzzle of boys but not girls were sexually abused by the OCCK group of killers – yes that’s my definite belief.
    Anthony Joseph Cippola, probably a quiet innocent lad aged around 16 or 17 entered the same seminary in the same intake with John Robert Thwaytes. It is not improbable that the elder man would have dived on the boy as JRT was 29 – and a long-term paedophile by that time – but regardless both priests were paedophiles when they left the seminary that seems clear! Cipolla has been tried and convicted. JRT was in India and thus immune from law and order.

    But let’s focus on JRT diary bears upon understanding how two girls could be relatively untouched in the OCCK murders – if his sick psyche may be considered as an example of a known homosexual paedophile whether or not we consider it a direct connection.

    Here is an excerpt – maybe because I met the man many times I can see deeper but I will narrate my views at the end in case it is not obvious enough to see the psychology of a demented man who has suffered severe abuse at the hands of women, women who were like vestal virgin angels, women of God, The Sisters of Mercy nuns!

    Quote from JRT diary
    “I was severely sexually abused as a child myself. At Our Lady’s Convent, Abingdon, where I was a boarder from age 6 to 9, I was regularly tortured by some nuns. They used to strip me naked, along with Peter W****, and Adrian B******, and beat us all over our bodies in the bathroom.
    If I wet the bed they used to beat me and dress me up in girls clothes and made me stand in front of all the children.”
    [Adrian Millane notes: At the age of six years this boy, (recalls as a man) – writing in the context of his own “innocence“ of the suspicion of him being a paedophile – how he was stripped naked and brutally beaten and dressed as a girl and paraded for mockery dressed as a girl!
    And aside from the opening description “ severely sexually abused “ he has NOTHING whatever to say that suggests the trauma he suffered. He makes no mention of the devastating consequences to himself. He just says of the nuns “they were weird” . Nothing to see here – YET in his diary he writes at length quoting descriptions of naked little boys buttocks being whipped red raw – Clearly the priest carried horrific memories which he would act out on innocent children. It was his only possible relief in a sexual context. He could not get aroused any other way!]

    The following quote is not consecutive but from another part of the diary:

    “There are some problems I can confide only to my diary.
    A priest in my position is always in danger of allegations of paedophilia. With the average child this would not be too dangerous. But there is always a fringe group among the children who suffer from “gender confusion” or are perhaps “gender disadvantaged”.
    Two of the boys here come within that category in a very obvious and manifest way;
    Bappa G****** and Bacchu S**** “. [Adrian Millane remarks THESE LITTLE BOYS ARE MAYBE 8 YEARS OLD IN 1991 WHEN THIS DIARY SPEAKS OF THEM,, WHILE JRT IS WRITING IT IS MAYBE A YEAR SINCE HE BEGAN SEX ABUSE OF THESE BOYS!”

    Diary quote continues:
    “They like to dress up as girls and dance like that on the stage whenever we
    have some sort
    [diary PAGE 3 ENDS]

    “of variety show. I do not want to make mountains out of molehills but it worries me sometimes.
    “If I interfere it may give the matter undue importance and give people more bad ideas. On the other hand, if I tolerate it silently perhaps it will prove to be a passing phase, something they have to work out of their system and then they will be alright.
    “I have been reading a book by a psychoanalyst to try to understand gender confusion. A book by Wilhelm Stekel. But it is very difficult to understand.
    “There is another problem. I see some of these kind of boys hanging about with foreign visitors, going in their rooms and so on.
    “Would it be possible that some sort of erotically toned relationship could take place? If so, how could I find it out?
    “So far no boy has ever complained to me of any such relationship. Would it be possible for a boy to accept such a relationship with a man without resenting it and would he not surely complain to me about it?”

    [Adrian Millane notes: JRT is writing a cover story for himself in his diary, due to being accused back then early 1999s of paedophilia – before he was first fully exposed(1996), so he writes pretending to speculate about whether foreign guests might have any sexually toned contact with “these kind of boys” as he conveniently labels them.He is clearly the ‘gender confused’ man affected by childhood abuse he suffered. AM NOTE ENDS]

    “I never yet had any complaint about the foreign visitors, only rumours.
    [PAGE 5 ENDS]
    I cannot offend them by raising such an issue on mere rumours; especially when those foreign visitors are so kind and friendly and generous, and all the children love them so much.”

    [JRT IS WRITING THIS COVER STORY ABOUT HIS “WONDERING” IF SEX ABUSE IS OCCURRING WHILE FRANK SHELDEN AND FRITS BERNARD AND PHILIP LUCAS WITH JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES ALL TOGETHER ARE HAVING SEX ORGIES WITH ORPHAN BOYS AS YOUNG AS EIGHT YEARS OF AGE AND EVEN YOUNGER! BAPPA G***** HIMSELF IS THE VICTIM WHO NAMED FRANK SHELDEN OTHERWISE I ADRIAN MILLANE WOULD NEVER HAVE EVER HEARD OF OCCK AND SHELDEN AND NFI. ONE CHILD NAMED BY THE PRIEST AS IF HE WAS WORRIED FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILD ACTUALLY NAMED A BOY THE PRIEST HAD BEEN F*ing FOR AT LEAST A YEAR AND THAT BOY AGED FORTY YEARS WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY FRANK FROM A GROUP OF RANDOM PICS AND TO GIVE ME THE FULL NAME – that is how I got involved in OCCK connection]

    JRT writes in the diary in a paternalistic tone of how he is worried about the welfare of two boys who have “gender confusion” – one of these is a boy he had been raping for a year before he wrote the diary. I met that boy as a man!

    Bappa told me the date and details. Bappa named Dr Frits Bernard- I have a photograph of Dr Frits with Bappa from back then, taken on the paedophiles camera at the time and a print left behind!
    I have photographs of Frank Shelden at the orphanage in West Bengal sitting with the priest JRT and holding a child who Bappa has identified as a fellow victim. Frank is cuddling the child in the photograph.

    Bappa and Bachu were regularly given money by the priest, John Robert Thwaytes witnessed by one of his dormitory mates who told me this, and they were sent to go and buy girls clothing and lipstick – the priest dressed the boys as girls before he raped them. This is very suggestive of the gender confusion of the paedophile priest himself. He could not have sexual interest in a real girl but wanted the sexual imagery of a female.

    The diary also explicitly describes how the priest himself was raped as a boy age 11 years. He uses this as a cover story to explain how he could never do that to a child. But it is indeed the very reason he spent his life doing it to children. He was trained as a paedophile as a catholic child.

    “The lawyer also told me they were trying to start some case against me for child molesting.
    This is an easy allegation to make against a priest in my position. He said they were getting some boys to sign papers accusing me by giving them bribes and threats and suggesting ideas to them and spreading rumours to create a climate of suspicion and misinformation. I have no defence against this kind of dirty trick. It is ironic that I of all people should be accused of child molesting. I have always been a strong opponent of any such activities. Partly because I was severely abused as a child……”
    [nuns abuse aged 6 already quoted above]

    “…. at Stonyhurst I was often abused. Sometimes tortured. Sometimes sexually abused by stronger boys, like Terry Burke, Oddie, Rush, Corkish.* I was always the passive partner as I was small weak.
    *Footnote: also Fendon [Fenton?] and Tom Costigan and Colin MacKenzie.

    [RAPE ALLEGED BY JRT DECADES LATER – his abused childhood IN THE DORMITORY OF STONYHURST COLLEGE LANCASHIRE – crimes DONE TO JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES FROM ABOUT AGE 11 YEARS. THIS IS THE ENDING OF HIS CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE AND THE BEGNNING OF A LIFETIME OF HIS OWN COMPULSION TO SEXUAL ABUSE OF BOYS – the foundation of his life of crimes done to others affecting thousands if not tens of thousands of lives over a lifetime of sexual abuses!]

    NOW let’s get to his psychological profile when it comes to women and thus, girls in his mind. The hatred and yet bizarre reverence for the female gender caused by the sexual assault by nuns at young age!

    Diary quote:
    “Ideally I would like to marry a butch lesbian and live with her and her partner.
    The butch lesbian would be the father, The feminine lesbian would be the mother, and I
    would be the child. [SO THAT JRT COULD BE SAFE FROM SEX, NO NEED TO BE SEXUAL WITH WOMEN IF THEY ARE LESBIAN … THIS IS DUE TO HIS HOMOSEXUALITY. HERE WE SEE AGAIN HIS OBSESSION TO BE MADE POWERLESS IN SEXUAL CONTEXT]
    We would all sleep in the same bed and I would watch them make love.
    Sometimes they would birch me before making love.”

    [HERE JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES SPEAKS OF BEING WHIPPED ‘BIRCHED’ BY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN AS THE HOLY WOMEN SEXUALISED AND STRIPPED AND WHIPPED HIM AS A CHILD OF 6.]

    Quote continues:
    “I would have a hard life working for them and have to keep strict discipline like a school boy in the bad old days (that were really quite fun). I would have to give them all my money and property and they would give me only a little pocket money, Like a small boy.
    Sometimes I have fantasies like
    [PAGE 24 ENDS]
    this and I get so excited I am in a state of ECSTASY for hours on end. “
    [The remarks in brackets about fun school days are JRT remarks. The strict denial of sexual pleasure in female context is a clue. He can rip a boy but he cannot have any sexual pleasure with a girl. That is what we see in the Oakland county child killings in my view. Girls who were not able to be touched but had to be murdered.]

    John Robert Thwaytes in his diary wrote great long lengthy quotes from books he was studying trying to self psychoanalyse. He knew he was a very disturbed person but he could do nothing much about it!

    Here he talks about himself in context with cases he is reading from Stekel!

    “Stekel also shows that, like masochism, homosexuality is also a flight against hatred and sadism, targeted towards the mother. The homosexual avoids women and has a horror
    feminale [DREAD OF FEMALES] because deep down he wants to commit lust murder against [diary PAGE 29 ENDS]
    them (mother or substitute).

    “Stekel points out that in every case of masochism there is concealed homosexuality. In my case …”

    [Here JRT identifies himself with Stekel psychoanalysis]

    Diary quote continues from above:
    “… he would certainly argue that the characteristics I want in my partner, “butch lesbian”, “Athletic, dominant Negress”,” able to fight another girl” , all point to MASKS of homosexual figures.”

    Adrian narrative resumes:
    Elsewhere in his handwritten diary the priest John Robert Thwaytes writes regularly about how he is a eunuch and sexless and repeatedly disclaims any sexual energy – before he then writes a sick long rave about his masturbation fantasy thinking of the group sex with boys after the events he describes which are NOT HERE QUOTED but they are described in full in the diary!

    Diary of JRT quoted:
    “I am so grateful to those boys for loving me like this and making a sex object that my
    favourite masturbation fantasy now it is to be their snuff fuck victim and get slowly
    tortured to death while they enjoy doing whatever they want with me.
    [EUNUCHS DO NOT MASTURBATE! JRT DESIRE TO BE TOTALLY DESTROYED IN SEX IS PART OF HIS SICK MIND AND PART OF WHY HE USED TORTURE ALSO ON CHILDREN IN SEXUAL CONTEXT, AND NEEDED IT DONE TO HIMSELF FOR PLEASURE. His first introduction to sex was tortured by women, NUNS WHO HE REVERED AND COULD NOT EVER AFTER BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO GIRLS BUT PUT THEM ON A PEDESTAL OF HOLINESS – a girl could be murdered but never a sex object in this man’s mind which is how I connect him notionally to the poor girls in the Oakland county case!]

    John Robert continues his diary narrative about his sexual arousal thinking about the group sex with boys at Caesar School in West Bengal:

    “That idea gives me the most powerful multiple orgasms followed by a feeling of total peace and contentment. I would like them to snuff fuck me on video so that the whole world could enjoy it and it would become part of everyone’s masturbation fantasies, and lead to a
    [PAGE 38 ENDS ]
    change in our sexual evolution so that the two sexes would merge into one androgynous sex and the individual could choose freely whether he wanted to play male or female role, and from time to time change and try out the opposite role.
    This sacrifice on my part would be something like the Crucifixion but specializing more
    in the Redemption of Erotic Love.”

    [he is so psychopathic he imagines himself as the Messiah of sexual liberation for the world while he is raping children in a remote Bengal jungle orphanage]

    Then again JRT talks about what it would take for him to have a sexual relationship with a woman. Notice the absurd hypocrisy when he disclaims the ability to be erotic after having just described the most powerful orgasms he ever had masturbating thinking of boys!

    Diary of papal missionary Catholic priest Johns Robert Thwaytes quotes continue:
    “If I could be erotic it would have to be with a fine young lady, preferably a Negress, as
    they look most beautiful to me, who is an Olympic athlete.
    But I would be her little boy, and she would have to dominate me completely whether I like it or not. “

    [JUST AS THE NUNS DID IN HIS CHILDHOOD!]

    Diary continues:
    “That idea gives me tremendous pleasure and satisfaction. Little kids do not interest me in THAT way at all.“

    [JRT SAYS THIS BUT ENDLESS EVIDENCE PROVES THIS IS A LIE HE TELLS US, OR HIMSELF, OR BOTH. HE HAS SEXUALLY TOUCHED AND RAPED MANY LITTLE KIDS]

    DIARY QUOTE CONTINUES:
    “May 1991
    Yet, though am not a paedophile but a eunuch, I attract those kind of boys who have some peculiar tendencies which are not clear to me.”

    I will leave it at that for now BUT SOME PARTING NOTES

    Frank Shelden had a partner Gerald Richards who was jailed for the crimes that Frank should have faced also – Richard’s was a shocking paedophile involved on North Fox Island.
    Richards drew a schematic diagram of the paedophile network that spanned USA and tied the publication of child sexual abuse material in Amsterdam But also spoke about the TEDDY BEAR CLUB

    THIS IS SPINE CHILLING FOR ME BECAUSE I KNEW JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES IN PERSON AND HE CARRIED A TEDDY BEAR AND WAS OBSESSED WITH TEDDY BEARS. FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE! AT THE AGE OF 83 HE WAS CUDDLING HIS TEDDY BEAR WHEN HE DIED IN EFFECT! ALL OF HIS SEX BOYS WERE CONSIDERED MEMBERS OF THE TEDDY BEAR GROUP! TEDDY BEAR IS SYNONYMOUS FOR PAEDOPHILE SEX BOY!

    LASTLY IT IS WORTH REITERATING THAT Farquhar A VICTIM ON NORTH FOX ISLAND STATED THAT HE SAW MARK STEBBINS on an occasion on the same day on which he Farquhar was being sexually abused by the North Fox Island group- he did not say that this was on the island at the time but he said that he saw a boy he believes was Mark STEBBINS which is a completely overlooked piece of testimony. Farquhar wrote this in a letter that he publicly released in recent years

    There is so much evidence but there are many more people who don’t want to see it !

  4. From Adrian Millane:

    I think this “Juan” conjecture is disgustingly close to the reality. It is pointless to respond to specific conjectures when theory gets too detailed but the broad strokes ring very true.

    What Juan has not mentioned is the likelihood of significant involvement of multiple Catholic seminarians or others tied not only to the Catholic Maryglade Seminary but also high society Catholic influential families of which Frank Francis Duffield Shelden is a shining example.

    It is a stunning fact that the beautiful brand-new Maryglade seminary was built around 1960 and yet only ever saw two intakes of aspiring priests before it was mysteriously shut down by the church, undoubtedly on some pretext, but the highest probability is the pandora’s box of paedophiles which the OCCK killings would shine a light on – whether any priest was directly or indirectly involved – this horrific series of child murders and the fact that so many paedophiles obviously were at the seminary, (and I can name at least two from my lounge room in Australia and I’m sure there are many others) – but whether or not they knew a priest was involved, the OCCK investigations situation was getting too damn hot to handle.

    Again it is hearsay but lower ranked police have been quoted as mentioning a Catholic priest hastily and quietly sent out of the country at the period and I think this could easily have been JRT. Another fact in the background is that this priest John Robert Thwaytes had LEGAL valid passports with his photo in them correctly issued by the authorities but one was in a false fake different identity. I have photographs of his real and false passports dude by side!

    This false legal ID would give a man the opportunity to be in one country on one passport while legally appearing to have never left his homeland, in this case a small orphanage in India. He could have been raping children on North Fox Island (or murdering children in Detroit ) while on paper he was still in the jungle of West Bengal.

    My narrative is going to get very explicit in the following

    I give warning that you may be very disturbed to read what I’m going to tell you based upon many years of my life investigating a horror that I have uncovered in person!

    I have categoric proof that John Robert Thwaytes, (JRT) a seminarian from the 1960 intake, was a lifelong paedophile with direct connection to Frank Shelden! I have proof from years of my charity work involvement in India, that John JRT committed countless child sex crimes in an orphanage in India and is connected with at least two murders or unlawful killings there, of which he was never charged before he died. I have information about where he hid the bodies but India does not care about crime unless there is money to be made from a case.

    But let me underline that this man Father John Robert Thwaytes had a long history connected to Detroit – he was ordained a priest in Detroit and then sent to India and indeed his first orphanage trust registered to manage the Boys Town Malbazar Orphanage was actually called BOYS TOWN FERNDALE TRUST!

    Ferndale is the suburb where the body of Mark Stebbins was found just as a coincidence!

    NB This has nothing to do with the famous Boystown organisation, of course I do mean infamous.

    I have categoric proof that Frank Sheldon visited this Indian orphanage and Caesar School after he fled from the USA, visited on sex tourism multiple times and I have met men who were his victims and they have testified on video and given further information which has connected other international paedophiles including Dr Frits Bernard – (I have evidence of a group of three men visiting simultaneously, Frank Shelden, Frits Bernard, and a blind man, a teacher from the UK called Philip Lucas ) – with groups of innocent little children effectively fed to these men in the Guest House at the orphanage for long orgies.

    The victim Bappa mentioned a man called John Broger but so far I have been unable to identify if this is the famous religious zealot of that name, but I have grave suspicions.

    Language barriers and the long time that has passed meant that I could not get categoric information but there was no doubt whatever about the identity of Frank and Frits and I have photographic evidence to back it up.

    Dr Fritz Bernard was a shining light so the paedophiles of the world and his direct connection with the priest JRT and with Frank S ties him directly also to the north Fox Island paedophile subscriber cult – by which I mean people who may have been not connected with anything such as the murders But who were directly connected to the group of people who Frank Shelden allowed to go and visit that disgusting place.

    I think it is more than probable that priests from the seminary including JRT would have visited that place. It’s too long-winded to explain here but there is absolutely no doubt that JRT and Frank had a long relationship from the early 60s and that continuing connection up until Franks death, between Thwaytes and Shelden, is the only way that Frank ever could have located the obscure little orphanage in the Bengal jungle – because he had been in constant continuing contact ever since the priest began his five decades of child abuse under the cover of Catholic charity in that place.

    But how do I connect this to the OCCK? Aside from the fake passport and the fact that I know the priest was a killer? Apart from the sexualised ravings in his diary not forgetting his own facial similarity to the Police identikit sketches – I have previously provided multiple photographs of the priest around that age alongside of those sketches and the resemblance is very troubling but we cannot make assumptions just based on that.

    The suspicious closure of the seminary cannot be direct evidence but we know there were at least two predatory paedophiles in that place. We know that one of them was closely connected to Frank Shelden- Both of these men were millionaires or from billionaire old-money high society families. And I am saying that both of them were psychopaths.

    A British teacher volunteering in India was a witness to the visit of these men and he gave me a horrifying quote straight from the mouth of Frank which basically made mockery of the idea that the anal rape of boys was at all a damage to those children.

    I have video footage of that interview where he gave as close as possible to the exact phrases which left him shocked and reporting the English authorities of the child rescue international trust in England, which they ignored for nearly a year before finally taking some action. Inadequate action.

    JRT diary reflects a profile of a perfect fit to explain puzzle of boys but not girls were sexually abused by the OCCK group of killers – yes that’s my definite belief.

    Anthony Joseph Cippola, probably a quiet innocent lad aged around 16 or 17 entered the same seminary in the same intake with John Robert Thwaytes. It is not improbable that the elder man would have dived on the boy as JRT was 29 – and a long-term paedophile by that time – but regardless both priests were paedophiles when they left the seminary that seems clear! Cipolla has been tried and convicted. JRT was in India and thus immune from law and order.

    But let’s focus on JRT diary bears upon understanding how two girls could be relatively untouched in the OCCK murders – if his sick psyche may be considered as an example of a known homosexual paedophile whether or not we consider it a direct connection.

    Here is an excerpt – maybe because I met the man many times I can see deeper but I will narrate my views at the end in case it is not obvious enough to see the psychology of a demented man who has suffered severe abuse at the hands of women, women who were like vestal virgin angels, women of God, The Sisters of Mercy nuns!

    Quote from JRT diary:

    “I was severely sexually abused as a child myself. At Our Lady’s Convent, Abingdon, where I was a boarder from age 6 to 9, I was regularly tortured by some nuns. They used to strip me naked, along with Peter W****, and Adrian B******, and beat us all over our bodies in the bathroom.

    If I wet the bed they used to beat me and dress me up in girls clothes and made me stand in front of all the children.”

    [Adrian Millane notes: At the age of six years this boy, (recalls as a man) – writing in the context of his own “innocence“ of the suspicion of him being a paedophile – how he was stripped naked and brutally beaten and dressed as a girl and paraded for mockery dressed as a girl!

    And aside from the opening description “ severely sexually abused “ he has NOTHING whatever to say that suggests the trauma he suffered. He makes no mention of the devastating consequences to himself. He just says of the nuns “they were weird” . Nothing to see here – YET in his diary he writes at length quoting descriptions of naked little boys buttocks being whipped red raw – Clearly the priest carried horrific memories which he would act out on innocent children. It was his only possible relief in a sexual context. He could not get aroused any other way!]

    The following quote is not consecutive but from another part of the diary:

    “There are some problems I can confide only to my diary.

    A priest in my position is always in danger of allegations of paedophilia. With the average child this would not be too dangerous. But there is always a fringe group among the children who suffer from “gender confusion” or are perhaps “gender disadvantaged”.

    Two of the boys here come within that category in a very obvious and manifest way;

    Bappa G****** and Bacchu S**** “. [Adrian Millane remarks THESE LITTLE BOYS ARE MAYBE 8 YEARS OLD IN 1991 WHEN THIS DIARY SPEAKS OF THEM,, WHILE JRT IS WRITING IT IS MAYBE A YEAR SINCE HE BEGAN SEX ABUSE OF THESE BOYS!”]

    Diary quote continues:

    “They like to dress up as girls and dance like that on the stage whenever we

    have some sort

    [diary PAGE 3 ENDS]

    “of variety show. I do not want to make mountains out of molehills but it worries me sometimes.

    “If I interfere it may give the matter undue importance and give people more bad ideas. On the other hand, if I tolerate it silently perhaps it will prove to be a passing phase, something they have to work out of their system and then they will be alright.

    “I have been reading a book by a psychoanalyst to try to understand gender confusion. A book by Wilhelm Stekel. But it is very difficult to understand.

    “There is another problem. I see some of these kind of boys hanging about with foreign visitors, going in their rooms and so on.

    “Would it be possible that some sort of erotically toned relationship could take place? If so, how could I find it out?

    “So far no boy has ever complained to me of any such relationship. Would it be possible for a boy to accept such a relationship with a man without resenting it and would he not surely complain to me about it?”

    [Adrian Millane notes: JRT is writing a cover story for himself in his diary, due to being accused back then early 1990s of paedophilia – before he was first fully exposed(1996), so he writes pretending to speculate about whether foreign guests might have any sexually toned contact with “these kind of boys” as he conveniently labels them.He is clearly the ‘gender confused’ man affected by childhood abuse he suffered. AM NOTE ENDS]

    “I never yet had any complaint about the foreign visitors, only rumours.

    [PAGE 5 ENDS]

    I cannot offend them by raising such an issue on mere rumours; especially when those foreign visitors are so kind and friendly and generous, and all the children love them so much.”

    [JRT IS WRITING THIS COVER STORY ABOUT HIS “WONDERING” IF SEX ABUSE IS OCCURRING WHILE FRANK SHELDEN AND FRITS BERNARD AND PHILIP LUCAS WITH JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES ALL TOGETHER ARE HAVING SEX ORGIES WITH ORPHAN BOYS AS YOUNG AS EIGHT YEARS OF AGE AND EVEN YOUNGER! BAPPA G***** HIMSELF IS THE VICTIM WHO NAMED FRANK SHELDEN OTHERWISE I ADRIAN MILLANE WOULD NEVER HAVE EVER HEARD OF OCCK AND SHELDEN AND NFI. ONE CHILD NAMED BY THE PRIEST AS IF HE WAS WORRIED FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILD ACTUALLY NAMED A BOY THE PRIEST HAD BEEN F*ing FOR AT LEAST A YEAR AND THAT BOY AGED FORTY YEARS WAS ABLE TO IDENTIFY FRANK FROM A GROUP OF RANDOM PICS AND TO GIVE ME THE FULL NAME – that is how I got involved in OCCK connection]

    JRT writes in the diary in a paternalistic tone of how he is worried about the welfare of two boys who have “gender confusion” – one of these is a boy he had been raping for a year before he wrote the diary. I met that boy as a man!

    Bappa told me the date and details. Bappa named Dr Frits Bernard- I have a photograph of Dr Frits with Bappa from back then, taken on the paedophiles camera at the time and a print left behind!

    I have photographs of Frank Shelden at the orphanage in West Bengal sitting with the priest JRT and holding a child who Bappa has identified as a fellow victim. Frank is cuddling the child in the photograph.

    Bappa and Bachu were regularly given money by the priest, John Robert Thwaytes witnessed by one of his dormitory mates who told me this, and they were sent to go and buy girls clothing and lipstick – the priest dressed the boys as girls before he raped them. This is very suggestive of the gender confusion of the paedophile priest himself. He could not have sexual interest in a real girl but wanted the sexual imagery of a female.

    The diary also explicitly describes how the priest himself was raped as a boy age 11 years. He uses this as a cover story to explain how he could never do that to a child. But it is indeed the very reason he spent his life doing it to children. He was trained as a paedophile as a catholic child.

    “The lawyer also told me they were trying to start some case against me for child molesting.

    This is an easy allegation to make against a priest in my position. He said they were getting some boys to sign papers accusing me by giving them bribes and threats and suggesting ideas to them and spreading rumours to create a climate of suspicion and misinformation. I have no defence against this kind of dirty trick. It is ironic that I of all people should be accused of child molesting. I have always been a strong opponent of any such activities. Partly because I was severely abused as a child……”

    [nuns abuse aged 6 already quoted above]

    “…. at Stonyhurst I was often abused. Sometimes tortured. Sometimes sexually abused by stronger boys, like Terry Burke, Oddie, Rush, Corkish.* I was always the passive partner as I was small weak.

    *Footnote: also Fendon [Fenton?] and Tom Costigan and Colin MacKenzie.

    [RAPE ALLEGED BY JRT DECADES LATER – his abused childhood IN THE DORMITORY OF STONYHURST COLLEGE LANCASHIRE – crimes DONE TO JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES FROM ABOUT AGE 11 YEARS. THIS IS THE ENDING OF HIS CHILDHOOD INNOCENCE AND THE BEGINNING OF A LIFETIME OF HIS OWN COMPULSION TO SEXUAL ABUSE OF BOYS – the foundation of his life of crimes done to others affecting thousands if not tens of thousands of lives over a lifetime of sexual abuses!]

    NOW let’s get to his psychological profile when it comes to women and thus, girls in his mind. The hatred and yet bizarre reverence for the female gender caused by the sexual assault by nuns at young age!

    Diary quote:

    “Ideally I would like to marry a butch lesbian and live with her and her partner.

    The butch lesbian would be the father, The feminine lesbian would be the mother, and I

    would be the child. [SO THAT JRT COULD BE SAFE FROM SEX, NO NEED TO BE SEXUAL WITH WOMEN IF THEY ARE LESBIAN … THIS IS DUE TO HIS HOMOSEXUALITY. HERE WE SEE AGAIN HIS OBSESSION TO BE MADE POWERLESS IN SEXUAL CONTEXT]

    We would all sleep in the same bed and I would watch them make love.

    Sometimes they would birch me before making love.”

    [HERE JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES SPEAKS OF BEING WHIPPED ‘BIRCHED’ BY BEAUTIFUL WOMEN AS THE HOLY WOMEN SEXUALISED AND STRIPPED AND WHIPPED HIM AS A CHILD OF 6.]

    Quote continues:

    “I would have a hard life working for them and have to keep strict discipline like a school boy in the bad old days (that were really quite fun). I would have to give them all my money and property and they would give me only a little pocket money, Like a small boy.

    Sometimes I have fantasies like

    [PAGE 24 ENDS]

    this and I get so excited I am in a state of ECSTASY for hours on end. “

    [The remarks in brackets about fun school days are JRT remarks. The strict denial of sexual pleasure in female context is a clue. He can rip a boy but he cannot have any sexual pleasure with a girl. That is what we see in the Oakland county child killings in my view. Girls who were not able to be touched but had to be murdered.]

    John Robert Thwaytes in his diary wrote great long lengthy quotes from books he was studying trying to self psychoanalyse. He knew he was a very disturbed person but he could do nothing much about it!

    Here he talks about himself in context with cases he is reading from Stekel!

    “Stekel also shows that, like masochism, homosexuality is also a flight against hatred and sadism, targeted towards the mother. The homosexual avoids women and has a horror

    feminale [DREAD OF FEMALES] because deep down he wants to commit lust murder against [diary PAGE 29 ENDS]

    them (mother or substitute).

    “Stekel points out that in every case of masochism there is concealed homosexuality. In my case …”

    [Here JRT identifies himself with Stekel psychoanalysis]

    Diary quote continues from above:

    “… he would certainly argue that the characteristics I want in my partner, “butch lesbian”, “Athletic, dominant Negress”,” able to fight another girl” , all point to MASKS of homosexual figures.”

    Adrian narrative resumes:

    Elsewhere in his handwritten diary the priest John Robert Thwaytes writes regularly about how he is a eunuch and sexless and repeatedly disclaims any sexual energy – before he then writes a sick long rave about his masturbation fantasy thinking of the group sex with boys after the events he describes which are NOT HERE QUOTED but they are described in full in the diary!

    Diary of JRT quoted:

    “I am so grateful to those boys for loving me like this and making a sex object that my

    favourite masturbation fantasy now it is to be their snuff fuck victim and get slowly

    tortured to death while they enjoy doing whatever they want with me.

    [EUNUCHS DO NOT MASTURBATE! JRT DESIRE TO BE TOTALLY DESTROYED IN SEX IS PART OF HIS SICK MIND AND PART OF WHY HE USED TORTURE ALSO ON CHILDREN IN SEXUAL CONTEXT, AND NEEDED IT DONE TO HIMSELF FOR PLEASURE. His first introduction to sex was tortured by women, NUNS WHO HE REVERED AND COULD NOT EVER AFTER BE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO GIRLS BUT PUT THEM ON A PEDESTAL OF HOLINESS – a girl could be murdered but never a sex object in this man’s mind which is how I connect him notionally to the poor girls in the Oakland county case!]

    John Robert continues his diary narrative about his sexual arousal thinking about the group sex with boys at Caesar School in West Bengal:

    “That idea gives me the most powerful multiple orgasms followed by a feeling of total peace and contentment. I would like them to snuff fuck me on video so that the whole world could enjoy it and it would become part of everyone’s masturbation fantasies, and lead to a

    [PAGE 38 ENDS ]

    change in our sexual evolution so that the two sexes would merge into one androgynous sex and the individual could choose freely whether he wanted to play male or female role, and from time to time change and try out the opposite role.

    This sacrifice on my part would be something like the Crucifixion but specializing more

    in the Redemption of Erotic Love.”

    [he is so psychopathic he imagines himself as the Messiah of sexual liberation for the world while he is raping children in a remote Bengal jungle orphanage]

    Then again JRT talks about what it would take for him to have a sexual relationship with a woman. Notice the absurd hypocrisy when he disclaims the ability to be erotic after having just described the most powerful orgasms he ever had masturbating thinking of boys!

    Diary of papal missionary Catholic priest Johns Robert Thwaytes quotes continue:

    “If I could be erotic it would have to be with a fine young lady, preferably a Negress, as

    they look most beautiful to me, who is an Olympic athlete.

    But I would be her little boy, and she would have to dominate me completely whether I like it or not. “

    [JUST AS THE NUNS DID IN HIS CHILDHOOD!]

    Diary continues:

    “That idea gives me tremendous pleasure and satisfaction. Little kids do not interest me in THAT way at all.“

    [JRT SAYS THIS BUT ENDLESS EVIDENCE PROVES THIS IS A LIE HE TELLS US, OR HIMSELF, OR BOTH. HE HAS SEXUALLY TOUCHED AND RAPED MANY LITTLE KIDS]

    DIARY QUOTE CONTINUES:

    “May 1991

    Yet, though am not a paedophile but a eunuch, I attract those kind of boys who have some peculiar tendencies which are not clear to me.”

    I will leave it at that for now BUT SOME PARTING NOTES

    Frank Shelden had a partner Gerald Richards who was jailed for the crimes that Frank should have faced also – Richards was a shocking paedophile involved on North Fox Island.

    Richards drew a schematic diagram of the paedophile network that spanned USA and tied the publication of child sexual abuse material in Amsterdam But also spoke about the TEDDY BEAR CLUB

    THIS IS SPINE CHILLING FOR ME BECAUSE I KNEW JOHN ROBERT THWAYTES IN PERSON AND HE CARRIED A TEDDY BEAR AND WAS OBSESSED WITH TEDDY BEARS. FOR HIS ENTIRE LIFE! AT THE AGE OF 83 HE WAS CUDDLING HIS TEDDY BEAR WHEN HE DIED IN EFFECT! ALL OF HIS SEX BOYS WERE CONSIDERED MEMBERS OF THE TEDDY BEAR GROUP! TEDDY BEAR IS SYNONYMOUS FOR PAEDOPHILE SEX BOY!

    LASTLY IT IS WORTH REITERATING THAT Farquhar A VICTIM ON NORTH FOX ISLAND STATED THAT HE SAW MARK STEBBINS on an occasion on the same day on which he Farquhar was being sexually abused by the North Fox Island group- he did not say that this was on the island at the time but he said that he saw a boy he believes was Mark STEBBINS which is a completely overlooked piece of testimony. Farquhar wrote this in a letter that he publicly released in recent years.

    There is so much evidence but there are many more people who don’t want to see it !

    Sent from my iPhone

    Signed Adrian Millane

  5. For those of you under the age of about 55 and not from Detroit. Lou Gordon was a hugely popular talk show host. He died in his sleep , at home , in the late 1970s. Also, I used to work in death care. At an autopsy , the fewer spectators the better. This is especially true with homicide cases.

    1. It was on channel 50 that was piped thru northern Michigan so I was was aware of it as my parents watched it. The only thing I really remember was the night the Ghoul was guest on his show. That drew the kids to watch him.

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