This morning I listened to the most recent episode of the Don’t Talk to Strangers by podcaster Nina Innsted. You should, too. https://omny.fm/shows/don-t-talk-to-strangers/no-one-to-guide-him. Don’t Talk to Strangers is not just a long-form podcast about the OCCK and other child murders in Oakland County and the surrounding areas during the same era, but a long view of the shit show that is Oakland County and the Michigan State Police. You get the kind of perspective only someone who stands back and takes the long and the wide view can get. The kind of perspective that is not immune to common sense and is immune to the concept that “coincidences,” misinformation and smoke and mirrors should silence any questions or concerns.
This episode looks at the horrific murder/suicide (or perhaps murder/murder) involving pedophile James Lossing of Mt. Clemens on September 1, 1978. Lossing abducted a boy right off the street, in front of his friends, late in the afternoon. He raped him and then shot him to death within a two hour period. When police found Lossing and the boy, they were both dead in Lossing’s hellhole of an apartment. Lossing was then linked to the assault of two boys, ages 14 and 9, the previous month.
Due to the nature of the crime and the fact that the OCCK case was still wide open at that time, the good old OCCK task force was called, just like it was when monied monster Chris Busch was found dead and rotting in his parents’ Bloomfield Village home about 7 weeks later. Nina quotes Det./Sgt. Roger Rivard from the MSP, speaking on behalf of the task force, as saying that Lossing did not fit the description or the profile of the OCCK, but that detectives sure were going to work on figuring out if he drove or had access to a BLUE GREMLIN. Thanks for reinforcing that bullshit and for spending more tax dollars on your big red herring, Rog.
Nina also makes a very important point about records in these cases. There is NO file on Lossing. Not at Clinton Township, not at the Macomb Co. Sheriff’s Department. No file at all. How can there not be a file on what was most likely the most brutal murder in Macomb County that year?!, asks Nina. But she realizes, that just as in the cases of Cynthia Cadieux and Judy Farro, because the child killer task force snapped up ALL the case files in any case even peripherally related to the OCCK and they have those cases under lock and key. Nina observed that “[n]ot only are they locked in a file cabinet somewhere, they’re not digitized. No one scanned in the thousands of pages related to these murders. I’d like to think that if all of the documents related to these cases were scanned in and were searchable and sortable, it would put us that much closer to resolving these murders.” [At 19:06- 19:50 mark]
An article in the Detroit Free Press dated February 18, 2005, “Child killer hunt heats up,” describes a room “filled with three-ring binders, cardboard boxes and metal file cabinets overflowing with manilla envelopes.” Does this sound like anyone seriously attempted to get this mammoth, unsolved stain on Oakland County and Michigan solved in the previous three decades?
“Gray and Robertson [the MSP Laurel and Hardy assigned to babysit the babysitter murder cases] hope that today’s technology–such as extensive criminal databases and advances in DNA testing–and possibly new leads will help them bring closure to the case and provide relief for the victims’ families.” The 2005 news article goes on to explain that “[r]ecently, thousands of pages of reports in dusty manila folders, along with composite drawings of the suspect’s face and notebooks filled with reports, were transferred from the State Police Northville Post to the Oak Park Post, where they fill a small room earmarked for this investigation. One of the 29 file drawers has a sign on it that says: ‘Tips too large for file.’ Gray, who was assigned to the case about three years ago, said he will seek federal grants to catalog all the information that has been compiled so far in a computer database. He said he does not yet know how much that will cost or how long it would take.”
That was 14 years ago. I would love to see how much money the MSP got to investigate this case and how they spent it. If they were serious, this would all have been digitized and cataloged, and you didn’t need to pay two longtime detectives to push paper around and squelch tipsters to get that done.
If there was a Magnum Force death squad out there killing off pedophiles, it is easy to see why all kinds of shit had to be under lock and key. But just as in the first season of HBO’s True Detective, some heads may have gotten blown off but the main head of the Hydra was never slain. If that is what went down, this misguided attempt at justice ultimately further victimized the families of the victims and actually spared the reputations of these men and their families. It is truly the most god-awful shit you could put together.
And, as for their hope for DNA technology advances–yeah, your wish is granted. Successful nuclear DNA profiling of rootless hair shafts has been achieved. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28993934/
I need to research this latest use of DNA technology so I can be prepared to address the excuses that may be made for why the magic hair from the Sloan car (that allegedly matches public and facial hairs found on Mark and Tim) can’t be tested to produce nuclear DNA results which could then be used in a genetic genealogy search via GED Match. Thank you to Nina Innsted to reminding me about the Bear Brook Podcast from New Hampshire Public Radio and its discussion of very novel use of DNA technology to identify a murderer and his previously unidentified victims.
So, don’t digitize. But just try not to run those magic hairs using the most modern technology and to keep doing so as this technology continues to evolve at a very high speed. My guess is Wayne County is willing to push this. If money is an issue, a Go Fund Me page and the Tim King Fund are possibilities. A “no” now just confirms that someone high up doesn’t want these cases solved.
So, listen to Don’t Talk to Strangers. Take the long and the wide view. Ask questions. If by now you still think something doesn’t stink, you are the perfect Oakland County resident. Just hope nothing like this ever happens to you or your family.
20 thoughts on “The most recent episode of the Don’t Talk to Strangers podcast”
Keep up the good work. It’s appreciated. May we one day see justice.
Btw, do you know if anyone last name Ashcraft, a Michigan Democrat who once held a high position, has any connection whatsoever to this case? Thanks.
I don’t, Jade. Was he a senator?
He was the treasurer for the Oakland County Democratic party. His daughter, Sarah Ruth Ashcraft, has publicly called him out for sexual abuse and involvement in a pedophile ring. She also calls out her high school Roeper, as well as Conyers, G. Peters, and Theosophy.
I’ve been wondering about possible connections.
She actually has publicly accused her father of knowing Tom Hanks, and alleges the actor abused her. There is one other public figure who has also accused Hanks of this, and he was found dead, about month ago, under very suspicious circumstances.
He didn’t have a daughter named Sarah
That is not the person I was referring to.
I’ve looked into this too. This is Sarah’s Grandfather. John is her father. https://youtu.be/_77WruFI7LY
Hmmm. 2005. The same year my stepson and his girlfriend were murdered. The same people were in the Prosecutor’s office. That’s why nothing in Oakland County ever gets solved. Gotta make people think it’s a crime free County! When is the last time any homicide trial was even held???
Lana and Chuck
Well being one of the survivors that lives to tell from my attempted kidnapping I am disgusted with all the detectives from 1977 to the present, the last time I heard from Detective Street they told me they found my police report when I was 11 from my attempted kidnapping by who I think was Arch Sloan, but I have not heard back from them I told them I wanted the date so I could celebrate the day I got away from the OCCK or the kidnapper for the OCCk, I will not call again I am so disgusted. I know what he looks like I live to tell who will listen to solve this case, I remember the details of his face and Arch Sloan has it in a younger picture, If they really wanted to solve this case they would listen to the one who knows what he looks like how hard is it, I am sure Arch Sloan never thought I would come forward after all these years but he was wrong he can rot in that prison cell and think about me everyday the little girl who knows what he looks like and his car and get to live to tell about it.
I have given up on the MSP completely what dang evidence do they need screw their evidence or no evidence I can tell you what he looks like and exactly how he tries to kidnap too bad they did not swab my arms way back in the day and this would be over we would have the DNA and all the families would have peace and so would the children that were killed by these monsters, and I do believe there were more than one involved, Sloan was the kidnapper of the organization and too bad they can’t make him talk on some kind of truth drug, who cares he is already rotting in prison for the rest of his life it doesn’t matter if he confesses, trust me I am glad he is in a prison cell and not walking around as a free man, however the Michigan Police have shown their asses that they don’t give a shit if they solve this case, so I say to any MSP reading this, thank you so much for making the entire state of Michigan look like a bunch of incompetent bunch of fools, I am sure that the police officers across the USA and possibly the world think you are a bunch of crooked no good, not worthy to wear your badges bunch of crap cops from 1977-2019. Congratulations we are one of the coldest cases in the USA History, What a fricking embarrasement!!!!!!!!!!!
Law Enforcement Excuses and Low Technology were running neck and neck in the furlong, but wait, here comes Advanced Technology closing in on the stretch. It’s a no brainer and Advanced Technology has taken the lead. They are nose to nose and it looks like it’s going to be Advanced, yes, it’s Advanced Technology, leaving Law Enforcement and Low Tech behind. And Advanced Technology wins, leaving Cops and Low with no excuses.
Great post. As we all know Nina does impeccable work. Why can the MSP get $200,000 to by drones and train troopers to fly them around but not to address the most important cold case in Michigan history? Does anyone know how Michigan’s top cop Dana Nessel feels about this case? Or will she default to the old “I can’t comment on an ongoing case” statement. I can’t imagine how frustrated you must feel. Please remember we are with you and we will never forget.
This is something that has bothered me since watching the special on the ID channel .. it was said that at some point Sloan sold his bonneville to the son of a state trooper .. but of course they didn’t identify the trooper .. tonight while loteninf to the crime junkie podcast about the murders .. she says that Gerald Richards originally learned photography while helping his father who was an officer .. Cathy dk you know if it was Richards who the car was sold to or if not do you know who it was ..?
No idea who Sloan sold the car to, but I bet investigators do. Did anyone ever connect Sloan and Richards? No idea. It’s all a big, 43-year-old secret. Because, you know, the real killer might do something to keep from being arrested if we say anything, ever. Sloan was a child rapist and his name was called in to police immediately after Mark Stebbins was murdered. His Bonneville was searched and the evidence retained and tested by the Michigan State Police. He worked at service stations in the area, including one near Gill Road, not 3 miles from where my brother’s body was dumped. In the past few months a number of people (male and female) have contacted me and said Arch Sloan attempted to abduct them. He was clearly, in addition to a child rapist, a procurer for pedophiles and child pornographers in the area. A hair found in his Bonneville (searched in the wake of Mark’s murder), allegedly matches hairs found on both Mark and Tim. Yeah, hairs–despite Ray Anger and Company’s “evidence, what evidence???” stance. Jessica Cooper announced to the world, on the eve of her re-election, that these hairs did not belong to Arch Sloan. So WTF would he talk? There are just too many stories about Sloan and he is a very dangerous, sick person. Yet he sits with his disgusting, old, white mouth shut and enjoys his routine in prison according to police. He wouldn’t take a deal a few years ago where if he told police what he knew about the OCCK crimes, he would be released from prison so he could spend his old age outside of the walls. He refused the deal. He flunked a polygraph related to this case. We think he refused the deal because he couldn’t find a way to tell police what he knew without implicating himself. He spent years in and around Oakland County abducting, attempting to abduct, raping and threatening kids. It is no stretch for him to be involved in killing and/or dumping kids’ bodies. He is a player here, but not the only one. That “magic hair” and his history are totally obvious. But he will take his secrets to the grave and investigators will never tell the public the story about how this predator’s Bonneville ended up in the hands of a state trooper’s son. Nothing to see here. Just another weird coincidence. Like the hairs from Tim’s evidence kit being mislabeled as animal hairs.
Michigan desperately needs our own Daniel Ellsberg. The corruption and lack of transparency is statewide and needs to stop.
Catherine, my sister was kidnapped in 1977 she was an avid video gamer at wizards on gratiot near 8 mile the same location others were last seen. I was with her at the time of the kidnapping. I saw him as he drove away I thought it was my dads car, a blue opal type ( vega) with the white hockey stick stripe. I looked him in the eyes and 41 years later I can still identify him as David Norberg. But he took her to the Chris Busch house. It was leopard sheets and the little blue car. She had short hair like a boy, like Timothy. He only took photos of her and with both myself and the other girl we were walking to school with possibly able to identify him, he let her go. I think Norberg used Buschs cars and houses. Both Busch and Norberg hung out at the house in Warren and at Wizards arcade. They were trolling. Several other kids found dead in that area. A girl named Deedee with long blonde hair. Never heard the case only met her sister from the old neighborhood 10 years later and she told me. Look up murders 6 mile and gratiot area in Detroit and you will find more clues. I have always said norberg was the kidnapper, Busch the pervert and L brooks patterson funded the child sex rings and porn.
Thank you for posting this Raylynn. What you posted is consistent with information provided by others. More on this later. How badly do you think L. Brooks wanted that DNA match to a scumbag like Norberg??? I still say that trip to Recluse, WY to dig up that POS was the most cynical ploy by Patterson and his helpers on record. Other dead kids in the wake of all the pedophiles in MI during that time period, for sure. No one would dig deep enough to link any of them. These animals operated with impunity.
And how convenient that no one on that “task force” back in the day did any real investigating of Busch or Greene. So many unanswered questions, even as the FOIA documents we were allowed to have concerning the Flint arrests in January 1977 reveal so much about all the sleeping dogs these dogs with titles like “prosecuting attorney” or with badges, let lie. None of those cops (1976-78) could piece together anything. The most negligent investigation ever. They used voodoo to clear people in this case and then everyone is surprised when lay people come forward and help link things up. They had to bury this thing because it wasn’t just one murder, it was at least four and the victims were children.
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