“Retired police officer who worked Oakland County Child Killer cold case highlighted in book”

Here is a great article from the Livingston Daily about retired Det. Cory Williams’ work on the OCCK investigation and Marney Keenan’s book, The Snow Killings: Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation (2020).


The Livingston Daily is in Livingston County, just under an hour northwest of Oakland County. Proof that interest in this 45-year-old cold case extends beyond the confines of Planet Oakland County.

Thanks to the reporter, Kayla Daugherty, for taking an interest and following through.

42 Comments on ““Retired police officer who worked Oakland County Child Killer cold case highlighted in book””

  1. Yes he is one of the heroes in this case just like you Cathy and Marney. I also feel like you all have these Killers Identified at least pretty good cases have been made against these freaks on this forum and in Marney’s book although some are dead. I wish you all the best.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Even if they found any usable DNA on the reexamination of the victims clothing, it’s doubtful the MSP would be forthright. I still wonder why Jill’s bike wasn’t finger printed; Frick & Frack probably wiped it down.

    • cathybroad says:

      Frack’s daddy and/or his helper Krease took care of that back in the day. And I believe this took place at the “suggestion” of an even more evil duo with law licenses.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Many thanks to Cory Williams and Marney Keenan and Barry, Cathy snd the King family for their heroic efforts. Back in the late 70s we all thought this killer was like a movie character villain. A genius, diabolical, mythical loner who was so smart and so savvy, he was able to elude the police blitz that was happening. especially after Tim King disappeared. To find out it was a ring of grungy, uneducated pedophiles who used teenagers as lures – makes more sense but also more disappointing. It still seems there is an unnamed law enforcement person or link somehow involved. Someone who was at the American legion or in the parking lot without attracting attention the day Mark Stebbins disappeared? One of these freaks has got to crack – hopefully the pressure stays on Arch Sloan. Lamborghini and Vince Gunnels to finally give us all the truth. Because the truth matters.

    • JN says:

      I personally still feel that there was two involved and at most three. I’m not convinced Sloan was involved . Yes there was DNA in his car, but he’s been known to lend his cars out. Not to mention the DNA could have been planted . I agree a cop could have been involved . Hence John McNamee. Who lived within walking distance from John Hastings . Who failed a polygraph in 2009. Which hasn’t been addressed to date. I just don’t feel that the pedoasses murdered the 4 Oakland county children . The pedophiles were molesting children way before the OCCK took place and they didn’t kill any other children. Some ask how do you know that they didn’t. Because it would have been planted all over the media back then. Like I’ve said 1000 times . John boy is still alive and there’s more of a chance of him being the perpetrator than say Sheldon . Please tell me that there’s a higher probability that Sheldon is the OCCK than John Hastings .

      • cathybroad says:

        My money is on John Hastings being directly involved, boots on the ground as they say. They wouldn’t go after JH the way they should have because this road leads to Chris Busch and H. Lee Busch as well.

        • JN says:

          I agree with you 💯, but pardon my French “ fuck that they won’t shit”. The asshole is alive . You , I and I’m sure numerous more KNOW John boy was involved. I know he will meet his maker one day;however, it eats me to the core that he’s still going on his merry way. I just wanted to say “ you are a fabulous woman Cathy”. You will be rewarded .

          • Inquisitor says:

            I’m with you both. I strongly believe JH is involved with these murders. I have my reasons why which I will keep to myself. Although, one has to really wonder what went down in Georgia for others to believe the same thing. This thing eats at me everyday as well, I wish something could break thru this barrier and get to the truth over this matter. Reporters should be knocking on Gary Gray’s doors asking for the DVDs!

      • RD1 says:

        “Please tell me that there’s a higher probability that Sheldon is the OCCK than John Hastings”.

        You already know who OCCK is…at least with respect to the last 3 victims.
        A suspect confessed, repeatedly, both directly and indirectly – remember?

        The re-investigation into Chris Busch (and/or Greene) as OCCK suspects, started with the revelation Busch had DIRECTLY confessed this – to a polygrapher; “I did the Birmingham boy”. What more could anyone want?

        But there WAS more, a lot more.
        It turned out, when Corey Williams and others went through Busch’s statements to police after being charged for abusing his nephews, Gunnels and others…Chris Busch indirectly confessed to involvement in ALL of them. The list of places he liked to take his Big Brother victim to, and meet other kids, was ALL of the locations OCCK victims vanished from, and even in the chronological order.

        At one point, while confessing his obsession for abusing young boys to an investigator, Busch remarks that he had “my first experiences with a woman, recently”…in other words, “yes, I did the girls too”.
        I don’t have knowledge of this, but I can give you an educated speculation about the girls. If it was a short story, the title would be; “A girl for Vinny (and me)”, no doubt inspired by a conversation like this;
        Vince: “Why are you always trying to f*ck me, Chris? Don’t you like girls? I like girls!”
        And you can be certain, that whatever “therapists” Busch had been sent to by his parents, one of the “treatments” he would have been directed to employ would be – “try to establish normal sexual relationships with some adults, maybe try dating some women and see what happens”.

        But I’m equally certain, Busch would have been terrified by the idea of dating an ADULT woman. No, he’d need to experiment with someone he could intimidate into total submission, so – a girl then. But things didn’t go as he’d planned, and that might explain the particularly brutal execution of the first female victim. Perhaps she couldn’t help laughing when this huge bear of a man couldn’t even “get it up”, with her – and that would be the end of that.
        So, try again with another one…and have Vinny there this time – to get Chris stimulated – perhaps.

        Tim King? How about a conversation like this;
        Vince: “I won’t let you do that to me, Chris…what was in that film…but how much will you give me if I help you get your hands on someone you CAN do it to”?
        Sounds about right? Speculation.

        I don’t need to speculate, however, as to who wanted the Chris Busch death scene to indirectly but unmistakably scream; “I’M THE OCCK!” CHRIS BUSCH, wanted it to.
        For goodness sake…1/28/77, MSP interview Busch and he VOLUNTEERS that himself and supposedly Greene, had fantasies about abducting a boy, tying him up and sexually abusing him…and keeping him for a period of time, even!
        When Waldron searched Busch’s Alma home, he found ropes-ligatures, a shotgun, and commercial child pornography – just casually stored in a closet.
        Busch hadn’t made any effort to hide these incredibly incriminating items, unlike Greene hiding his polaroids in the eves, just casually lying around the same as they were found in the cottage after his death.

  4. cathybroad says:

    Every time I have cause to reread the FOIA documents covering the dates 1/25 to 2/1/77, it is beyond belief to me that Patterson, Thompson and Robertson got away with “bungling” the investigation. And these are just the documents two dirty organizations decided to provide! Then, it is all made public in a myriad of ways; newspaper articles, well researched books, a documentary, a four-part series on WDIV, podcasts, blogs (not just mine). What happens? Not a fucking thing. No help from the AG, the new prosecutor–my god, the MSP shits on anyone who asks questions to this day. People get a little uncomfortable, some even express legitimate outrage, but it blows over. L. Brooks Patterson, Richard Thompson, Gary Hawkins, Robert Robertson and Joe Krease and perhaps a few others from the OCP office thank you heartily for your inertia and your fear of the truth. As do John Hastings, Vince Gunnels and pedophiles wearing expensive suits (past and present) in Oakland County.

  5. KP says:

    I just keep thinking… there is DNA evidence that could easily up loaded to Genealogy sites and we have John Hastings failing a polygraph. If the MSP just followed up on those 2 leads alone, there could be a huge break in that case. I don’t imagine it would even cost much money, but I would put a gofundme together to pay for it if cost was an issue. Where do you go when the state police refuse to follow up? Cathy, have they said anything about uploading the DNA samples or why they haven’t done it? Or is it just plain impossible to talk to anyone? Where do you go if you are just being stonewalled?

    How do these people sleep at night?????????

    • cathybroad says:

      They take a page from the LBP playbook. Pour a few drinks, drift-off thinking about career advancement, promotions, power and money, and sleep like a baby.

      The first spring of COVID (2020), I spoke with Det./Sgt. Sean Street who said he was working on a compilation of the status of the evidence in this case. What was tested, what was retested, which lab was used for what test, whether the evidence had been returned to the MSP and if so, where it was stored. Meaning, as I pointed out, that when this cold case got handed off to yet another MSP detective (him), the case was still in disarray, and that inexplicably this had not been done previously. He said some of the evidence had been extinguished during testing over the years, including as I recall, the magic hairs from Sloan’s Bonneville. Poof! I asked about the Y-str sample developed from Kristine’s autopsy kit. Haven’t had a hit on that, can’t do genetic genealogy–too many people, blah, blah, blah.

      Later that spring I referred a very solid genetic genealogist who had offered her services for free to Det. Street. I know they spoke and/or emailed on more than one occasion. The genetic genealogist checks in on occasion and said Street went dark.

      I passed on the tip about McNamee in July 2020. No response. The survivor of criminal sexual conduct by McNamee called the famous tip line. No response. By this time, Marney Keenan’s book had been published and apparently the MSP got their feelings hurt. The only word since then was the following when an MSP spokesperson responded when asked by the media to comment on the book: “We don’t respond to fiction.”

      I’m sure you remember their FOIA response to the request for the 2009 file material about the Hastings poly in Georgia–too bad, so sad, after a “reasonable” search we don’t have this information. They have been ditching or misfiling evidence of all kinds in this case since January 26, 1977. Why should a 2009 file be produced?

      How do they sleep? They look at their kids or grandkids before bedtime and thank god there aren’t criminals protecting pedophiles in their neighborhood.

      • Inquisitor says:

        In regards to the hair samples. I’m completely lost. I thought once DNA is established, it’s pure data at that point on record somewhere. This is some of the most lame excuses ever reported on any crime. MSP needs to explain this to a show like 20/20.

      • Anonymous says:

        Rhetorically speaking, the fact that Det. Street has gone dark & the MSP won’t test DNA because of “too many possibilities” from no direct hit, well, that just reiterates they know and don’t want the truth/viable evidence & their screw ups to come to light.
        While it isn’t right, one could see that Dave Robertson’s motives were to protect his dad & family name. While we know LE is a loyal brotherhood and they do stick together, I never quite got Garry Gray. Is he just that lazy because he openly went to great lengths to stonewall and obstruct this investigation. It’s like he personally is afraid of what information/evidence is out there. Why won’t the AG take it out of the MSP’s hands.

        • Inquisitor says:

          If JH is ever proven to be involved with the OCCK crime (which it sure is looking that way and has been for a long time) every cop that has ever been involved with the case in the past would want to bury that evidence and have it NEVER be known to the public. Simply due to the fact that it relates to Helen Dagner and the embarrassment of the entire thing. That also goes along with Cory as well. Sadly that is the truth and there’s just nothing more to state about it! If it ever goes in other hands that is very likely what will be uncovered if it goes that far.

          • JN says:

            I agree 💯, if they ever got JH it would make everyone involved look like shit. The MSP, THE MEDIA, authors, they never considered JH a viable suspect. I feel just because he didn’t have any prior convictions “ Ted Bundy didn’t either “. Hastings wasn’t a known pedophile. Huge mistakes

            • cathybroad says:

              Abuse of power by prosecutors and cops. Public corruption, plain and simple. Then it devolves to the confused or corrupt people down the line, over the decades, to engage in ass-covering. This is easy to do because they play games with FOIA, judges back them up, and there are still a few corrupt officials and cops around who have a lot to lose if the truth was ever known about their evil complicity. Oh, and there are still criminals around who participated like John Hastings. But the people on the other side of the thin blue line aren’t going to let anybody go there.

              That no one has figured out that this is the dirtiest, most corrupt investigation ever is beyond me.

  6. Ang says:

    If John Hastings is directly involved .. why or what made him stop .?

    • Inquisitor says:

      Because he looks ‘exactly’ like the OCCK sketch that was in the newspapers and everyone had pictured in their minds by that point. It was nearly impossible to continue on.

      • JN says:

        I agree again ! There isn’t one suspect that looks IDENTICAL to those composites like John boy. You have to look pretty deep into what exactly did those witnesses see into the suspect. Think real hard what they seen. Let me ask you this. Did they see a grease monkey tow drunk driver? Did they see an obese Grizzly Adams? Did they see a short bald anti social factory worker? They said the suspect was fit and was wearing a brown sports jacket . He was clean cut with shaggy dark hair. Hmmm John Hastings had the socio status back then to dress like this . He wasn’t a grease monkey. He wasn’t obese with a huge beard .

        He went to Birmingham Brother Rice. He studied criminology and forensics. Like I’ve said “ you have to look deep into this “.

    • JN says:

      Being scared shitless of being caught. Don’t look so deep into the average psychology of a serial killer. Everyone of them are different. Not to mention who says he did stop? He’s been in Georgia for years. I personally feel he actually did stop. He’ no doubt has psychological issues, but he’s very much aware of things. He’s not mentally challenged. If he’s been receiving counseling and been in and out of mental institutions, that may have kept him at bay. Plus he’s 70 years old with health issues.

    • KP says:

      He never struck me as a mastermind, more of a hanger-on. Maybe he hasn’t found another group of sadistic psychopaths to associate with? Maybe he only heard stories from Busch/whoever and wasn’t really involved, but loved the attention of having inside info. Maybe he just hasn’t been caught?

      If it wasn’t for the polygraph issues and the fact two people reported him to the tip line early on, I would think maybe he was just a crazy, criminal-case stalker. But just too many loose ends that need to be tied up with him. I also thought he was even in Europe at the same time as Busch I think right before Mark was kidnapped? I could be wrong there. And, was he truly at the VFW hall in Ferndale that day? I don’t remember if that was truth or legend.

      • Inquisitor says:

        The Europe trip was a complete fake to stir cops away from him. Weird how the records (FOIA papers) show he never used this fake passport on his first time in for questioning being the OCCK in 1977.

        As far as was he truly at VFW? That’s a good question as I along with others have always wondered about that. Appleman has it in his book that JH was there but no one knows where he got his information. He never seems to reveal his sources for his book. Was often rumored that there was a pool tournament going on that day at the VFW that was finishing around the time Mark took his walk. Helen often talked about a list of who was in that pool tournament and of course JH was there. As we all know though, Helen makes up stories to further support her suspect and no one has ever seen this so called list. Don’t believe there is anything in the FOIA papers in regards to VFW attendance.

        • Inquisitor says:

          Another note on the Europe trip. The information is so inconsistent. In Ray Anger’s letter to Helen. He claims JH was in Europe during Tim’s abduction. Other places in the FOIA papers John claims he was in Europe during Mark’s abduction. While there are other places that claim he was in Europe during one of the girl’s abduction. In the FOIA papers where they interviewed JH family members (Sisters, Mom, etc) they all give different times he was in Europe basically clearing him of all the victims. They all had different ways he traveled there as well. Kind of rings similar to the current Brian Laundrie family where they are covering for him. Very strange that Busch had similar claims he was in Europe during crucial times. The truth and fake information is so intertwined in this case that no one can ever sort out what is exactly true and what is not anymore. That goes along with the cover-up investigation of it as well. What a mess!

          • Inquisitor says:

            Correction – I think we both reference VFW hall although it’s really American Legion Hall. Since they are so similar, they get interchanged quite often.

  7. cathybroad says:

    It is my belief that it boils down to following. John Hastings, neighbor of Chris Busch and H. Lee Busch, was a child grabber for the pedophile/child porn rings that were very active in Wayne County and Oakland County. This is what he did for a living during the time period we are talking about. He helped abduct children and hung out “in the rooms” where some really evil, nasty shit was going down. He has knowledge of the operations used to abduct and use children this way. He “knows everything” about the OCCK crimes. He was a “hanger-on” and not at the very front line like Chris Busch. He delivered kids to be raped, assaulted and filmed. And may he rot in hell for this, whether he violated a child himself. May he rot in hell for lying to investigators in 1977, 1992 and 2009, and may any of his family members who lied for him do the same.

    Moving to the OCCK crimes. From his long discussions with Helen, one of which was overheard by a completely unbiased observer, we have learned that this freak knew a lot about the crimes against Mark, Jill, Kristine and Tim. Police bought his explanation, enhanced by his bringing a serial killer encyclopedia to the 2009 interview, that he just had a fascination with serial killers. They seemed determined to reject him as a suspect at every turn because the following are apparently all coincidences: 1. His name was turned into the task force in 1977 (fuck your polygraphs, Michigan LE–we know how that works!); 2. He lived walking distance from pedophiles H. Lee and Chris Busch. 3. He flunked a real polygraph in Georgia in 2009 and the Georgia Highway Patrol was prepared to hold him until the MSP obtained a warrant (hahaha!).

    The composite of the man seen standing near and talking to Tim is him, not Greene. And how would any of us know that until the Birmingham Police Department was good enough a few months ago (after the exodus of those who had something to hide) to allow my brother to go through what little they had in their files on Tim’s case. The rest had been handed over years ago to the garbage disposal known as the Michigan State Police. The file contained a photo of Hastings from 1976/1977. https://catherinebroad.blog/2021/04/28/john-hastings-2/. Of course this photo was no where to be found in the MSP FOIA response. When you compare that head shot to the composite, you have a “winner.” He should have appeared before Jessica Cooper’s fake grand jury a decade ago.

    But no, the Michigan polygraphs (1977 and 1992, both “passes”) and the lack of a DNA match to any of the hair evidence, and his faked passports and lying family members means nobody ever looks for long at Hastings. I believe the 1992 investigation of Hastings by Don Studt at the Birmingham PD, which appeared to start out in depth, was abruptly terminated by use of the good old polygraph. And LBP. My opinion. Studt got pulled off that investigation and a nod and a wink would be all that was needed from the fat man running Oakland County or one of his emissaries.

    Who knows if Hastings did more that help abduct Tim? He saw one or more of those kids in “the rooms,” and at a minimum has knowledge. Those polygraph questions from the MI polys were bullshit. And this man flunked when someone who wasn’t concerned about ass-covering polygraphed him in Georgia. He thinks he’s really smart. It’s not that the cops in MI couldn’t crack him, it’s that they wouldn’t.

    He allegedly spoke with Helen about a lot of things even the average serial killer afficiando shouldn’t have at the tip of his evil tongue. Succinylcholine and “burking” for starters. Greene was in jail when Tim was abducted before he moved to his forever home at Jackson Prison. A long look at the muddled and shitty records in this case yields no other logical conclusion. So maybe Hastings had to kill Tim since their killer was now behind bars.

    Too many people have told me of near-miss abduction attempts after Tim. The child abductors in Oakland County didn’t stop, but they had to slow down. The killing arm of this freak show had to stop. With Greene incarcerated and Busch under more of a microscope given the CSCs he was charged with after the arrest in Flint in late January 1977 (CSC with a minor from Flint, discovered after Greene tossed Busch’s name as the killer of Mark Stebbins), they had to shut this shit down. Busch’s “fuck you” to his father–the escalation of child sexual assault to murder and dumping bodies right in Oakland County (or close, in Tim’s case)–had come to an end, but it was very effective while it lasted.

    The old saw that these criminally insane serial killers can never stop until they die or are incarcerated does not apply here. John Hastings was not that lone serial killer. I believe he was on the inside, lower levels of the child sex/porn ring and later was involved peripherally in the OCCK crimes. I believe, and I realize others disagree, that he took more “credit” than he was entitled to when he spewed to Helen Dagner. He got off on this.

    What people don’t understand is that after Chris Busch was released on $1,000 bond on February 1 1977, the Oakland County prosecutor’s office was not going to go near a child rape/assault case if they could help it. They sure as hell had to tread lightly after the evening of March 16, 1977. The two exceptions were the CSC case against Busch based on the Flint victim’s allegations (made before Tim was abducted) and Flint was asking WTF on those OC charges, boys? The second was the case against Fr. Gary Berthiaume, who got a six month sentence for assaulting two young parishioners.

    I stand by the following. One, Hastings was involved in child hunting for these sick rings. Two, at a minimum he has knowledge of all of the OCCK murders. Three, because of LBP’s fear that Hastings could lead to bigger fish and and an examination of his office’s investigation into the OCCK crimes and because of the outsized cop egos of Garry Gray and Dave Robertson, this POS is getting the last laugh.

    Feel free to disagree. Just my belief.

  8. JN says:

    Catherine, I agree with you 💯 as far as that scum bag Hastings is concerned. The only thing that I may disagree with is that I have a gut feeling that he was involved deeper than what you feel. It’s just my personal feeling. I’m sure you know much more about this reject than what I know.

    I feel his siblings are hiding this fucker as well. I find it puzzling that not one sibling mentions him or not one photo on their social media of him. Granted there always are black sheeps of families, but come on . NOTHING! When questioning Sister “ Mary” about her brother being involved with these murders. All she said was “ prove it”. Mary is the only sibling left that’s in Michigan. I know Helen fabricated much of her information, but that was done to get the MSP’s attention. She wasn’t the only person to witness Hastings confessions. I understand there’s no physical evidence connecting him, however, the failed polygraph from 2009, the Composites from Timmys abduction . “ which John Boy looks identical to”. The confessions. The coincidences of him living two streets over from Chris Busch and Corporal , Pedophile Cop McNamee. Taking a college course taught my Jill Robinsons father.

    Attorney Dana Nessel do what’s right and don’t ignore this cold case

  9. Inquisitor says:

    Going along with JN, I agree that I think JH is more involved than it seems. Where I go separate is I believe his primary agenda with these children as crazy as it may sound was ‘friendship’. Listening to Alpena Witness old interview on here it seems like he had emphasis of that in his memories from hearing them talk like that meant so much to him. It goes along with the FOIA papers where John’s family is interviewed and the emphasis from his mom was that he had ‘no’ friends while growing up. The killer forced these children to be his friend until it fell thru someway. It also explains that the very fact that the most soft spoken victim and was the easiest to get along with was Kristine who was kept the longest by a long shot. There is a reason for that and it sure is not over the pedophile ring known to favor boys the most right from the start. This along with Jill having premonitions of being shot in the head by someone and actually having it happen to her that very same way is a message from the killer that the victim opened up to him. Hardly seems to fit the pedophile activities either. Although there was some preliminary report that hinted on sperm further follow-thrus did not indicate it, I believe the girls were not sexually abused as what was generally believed by the public. These murders were not simply the convenience of some pedophile activities where the bodies were quickly disposed of in the streets afterward. It just doesn’t add up to that and it never did. There seems to be much more to this than just that.

    I seem to think that the OCCK was a ploy against the underbelly of the pedophile rings. This was his second agenda, the killer was trying to drive the police to investigate Chris Busch and his activities to uncover and reveal him to the world. It would also be a perfect motive to keep the cops off the killer’s tracks and on to someone else. That would explain symptoms of the simulated sex using an object after death on the boys (Kind of stands out in Tim’s autopsy notes) for examiners to find, hunting the same exact grounds as Busch to draw attention to him, the whole horrendous nature of the crimes and display of the victims bodies to create terror and attention to the public, the entire unrelated hairs planted on the victims and found of various pedophiles (Sloan, Gunnels, unknown hair etc) (Maybe hairs were obtained and helped from McNamee with his police duties and inside activities?) , sketch left at Busch murder to tie him to Mark once and for all (Don’t believe Busch family claims the sketch was there for months when it looks like it was quickly placed there on the wall). To go further JH was probably either a victim or possibly an insider (maybe both?) that was desperately trying to get the cops on Busch trail. The entire cover-up of Oakland County and MSP to the real world is still all legit and holds true as well and most certainly applies to this case. Many cops probably believe that a cop killed Busch and/or insiders to the pedophiles rings and that he actually was the OCCK. Serial killers are known to be deceptive and maybe that was what this all was. Perhaps the biggest deceptive stunts ever made. The only time it didn’t work for him was when the polygraph tests were done in Georgia. By that time it was so much ignored that no one was paying attention anymore.

    If what I believe is accurate above let’s try to imagine this further. When JH was talking to Helen there was nothing known about Chris Busch in the public’s eye about being a OCCK suspect or even his mysterious suspicious murder. I’m sure JH is feeling on top of the world and loved talking about this to someone if he could find someone to spill it to. Helen was the perfect prize for this. Imagine fooling the cops so much all of those years going down the pedophile path. If this is the case the spell has sure worked very well and still is today some 45 years later. It seems to be planted in everyone’s minds on this case or at least the majority. The spell is so much in play that allowed him to have conversations about it at a restaurant with Helen illustration maps to draw attention to him knowing the cops were chasing up the wrong tree all those years and continue to do so. To point out further here that the cops actually caught up with Busch for questioning and polygraphs before Tim’s abduction and they (Busch & Greene) were jokingly admitting to being the OCCK. It sure reads like that to me where they state they dreamed of getting different jobs so they could keep these kids, etc. Like a confession that’s just too good to be true. Who knows how much JH knew of this incident in 92 but I will assume plenty. It would just make him all the more want to put on a show on for Helen since she was tied to so many cops in town and everyone knew it. He was prepared to go on stage and he sure did. It actually cleared him for good. The perfect deception.

    I may be off on my speculation and I’ll be the first to admit that it’s just speculation. However I do believe JH is involved with this. The aftermath of Helen’s death with the things uncovered convince me all the more. Mainly the JH photo uncovered recently by the King family along with the very suspicious polygraph results from FOIA with what appears the most interesting things removed. Also the Doug Wilson sketches that were finally uncovered. Keep hoping something breaks this thing.

  10. Inquisitor says:

    If any documentaries or books in the near future on OCCK ever show the 1st OCCK composite sketch with the recent uncovered photo of JH from 1977. (Previously shown here on this blog) People around the world are going to say where in the hell were the investigators during all this? Top if off with some quotes taken right of Duncan’s polygraph conclusions what little bit came thru in print and it’s going to be WTF moment for everyone. Someone out there wake up and give this the attention it needs for a rude awakening. Oakland County & MSP needs their phones ringing every second over this entire thing! It’s long overdue!!!

    • cathybroad says:

      Thank you, I. Someone asked me last night if possibly Garry Gray was on the take–using the fact that he withheld the Hastings polygraph results from Cory Williams. I thought it was a very solid observation.

      I had always attributed Gray and Dave Robertson’s actions and behavior in the post-2005 investigation as due to arrogance, ego and IQ level. But maybe this is part of the mix as well.

      And thank you for continuing to weigh in, Inquisitor. It helps demonstrate how people feel about this case. It’s not just me.

    • JN says:

      Inquisitor, I agree with you like always. If the media would just show that photo of John Boy next to the composites, it might trigger someone’s memory. Let’s make NO mistake here, there isn’t one suspect that matches those composites like John Hastings . Many thought it was Greg Greene was the guy. As we now know it wasn’t him. He was in jail at the time. There is a discrepancy that im wondering about. It’s been mentioned that Doug Wilson said the suspect was wearing a ball cap. The composites don’t show a ball cap. I also wonder if Doug Wilson has ever seen a photo of Hastings. I would think he could possibly identify him. Heather channel 2-4-7 should all have his photo right next to the composites.

      • Inquisitor says:


        Agree completely. What is so ironic looking back now was that Helen claimed she had a photo of JH that matched the OCCK composite to an exact tee hair and all. She claimed that when Ray Anger came to Alpena in 92 to investigate him he took the photo from her and never to return it. Was never to be seen again by anyone so was just here-say from her all that time. So I guess Helen triedd to use other photos obtained later like the from his yearbook although taken a couple years before 1977 it still showed strong resemblance. Now with this photo surfacing and thank god for the King family to dig it up, it sure brings in the point and one of those things that Helen said that turned out to be true. My guess is this mug shot is probably the same photo she was referring to all this time. It really has to be. Because Helen made up things as well I didn’t pay attention after a while. Have to really ponder on all these things now. Never knew about the Wilson ball cap detail. You would think he would try to duplicate his memories with the sketch as much as possible unless the sketcher thought the ball cap was distracting? Don’t recall the other witnesses at pharmacy mentioning a ball cap so this is really to ponder on.

        • Inquisitor says:


          A few typos above and a rush at the time to type. I’m sure you catch the drift just the same.

          You really have me going on this baseball cap. Can you backtrack and try to recall the source? I’m wondering if the cap was on McNamee instead as the pharmacy witnesses that saw what appears to be JH talking to Tim in the parking lot never mention a cap worn by him. None of the OCCK sketches reflect on that as well. Secondly there was always a debate over McNamee and if he was bald in 1977 like his later photos show. Perhaps he was the one that wore the cap? Either way if true, the sketch artist is guessing on the hairline and parting as the witness never saw that if a hat was worn, obviously.

          • cathybroad says:

            And once again, how come the drawings of the heavier, balding, older white guy or that other composite were never released to the public? https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/56938161/posts/2896822744. A reader sent them to me!

          • Anonymous says:

            Inquisitor, the baseball cap reference was on this blog. I saved it, but it’s not letting me paste it on here. If you want it I can send it to you. I was pretty confused on the ball cap as well. We’re the composites just trying to give us a complete look at the suspect? It’s a pretty big issue though . How reliable is Doug Wilson? That being said , there was another witness in the lot. A lady seen Timmy talking to the suspect as well. She never mentioned a ball cap being worn.

        • cathybroad says:

          Ray Anger. Another dead man who can’t talk. And wouldn’t have done so truthfully anyway, even under oath. That little exhumation hoedown he went to in Wyoming was the tip of the explanation iceberg he was never forced to address. I wonder if he ended up on LBP’s speed dial. That photo of Hastings was pretty clearly a passport photo and of course Anger took it and never gave it back. Probably ripped it up. Just forgot to make sure no other PDs had that photo. So we see it for the first time last summer. No one ever asked my family if we recognized that fuck. Not in 1977, not in 1992 and certainly not anytime after that.

  11. KP says:

    The Case Breakers just identified the Zodiac Killer. It would be great if they would take on the OCCK…

  12. KP says:

    I apologize if this is posted twice, I hit enter and my post disappeared.

    The Case Breakers just identified who the Zodiac Killer was. I wonder what it takes to get them to look at a case. Maybe Cory could even work with them, they are a team for 40+ current/ex detectives that look at cold cases.



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