Thanks, Detroit Public Library, for this important discussion

I am really grateful and impressed at the commitment of author Marney Keenan and retired Inspector Cory Williams to unraveling the OCCK case. Here is a link, courtesy of the Detroit Public Library, to the recording of the book talk on January 18 on The Snow Killings: Inside the Oakland County Child Killer Investigation:

A small segment is missing from the beginning of the talk, as the technical difficulties gods have been active in January. If you have information about the perpetrators of these crimes or those who protected them from prosecution, contact the Wayne County Prosecutor’s office and ask for Inspector Bivens.

20 responses to “Thanks, Detroit Public Library, for this important discussion”

    • True, although we’re back to the suggestion that Greene possibly being bailed out of jail again although no one can explain whom paid the fees to bail him out at the time. So sadly, we’re back to square one which is going no where.

      • Cathys already shown that Greene was in jail when her brother was abducted. It was said that the suspect was clean cut with a tan sports jacket. I’d say this doesn’t sound like Grease monkey Greene. However; this does sound very much like Hastings. Greene didn’t have two Nickels to rub together.

        • GREENE WAS IN JAIL until he got the one way ticket to Jackson Prison in June 1977. I bet LB Patterson and Richard Thompson almost wished Greene was out on March 16, 1977, but he was not. No way, no how. Widow’s peak man was never going to walk free again after the arrest in Flint on 1/25/77.

          • Thanks again Cathy for the 50th time for verifying that Grease monkey was squeezing bars then. Maybe some of these people will finally read this and put it within their subconscious and quit with the Greene narrative. Maybe Sloan got an Elvis troupe and he took a shower and borrowed Hastings tan sports jacket. 🤦🏻

            • That subhuman animal with 100s of sexual assaults against kids, with a jail card that had written on the top: “KEEP SECURED AT ALL TIMES” raped his last victim by January 25, 1977. They locked up this worthless SOS and threw away the key. It’s bad enough they let his partner Chris Busch walk. But Greene was never going to be a free man again. Maybe if he had a daddy from OC like Busch, he could have walked between his arrest and sentencing. But he didn’t.

              • Well it would be nice if everyone was on page with that. Because if Greene was never bailed with no documented proof and not even a person that had money to bail him, it should be accepted as that. However both Marney and Cory still seem to steer this to being Greene the primary OCCK sketch and Green was out on bail during Tim’s abduction. It just confuses matters as to what are the real facts of this case.

                • I’m not so sure that is what they were saying in this video. I think everyone can agree that if a case is waiting to be solved based solely on eyewitness testimony–composite drawings and cars, it’s a very bad sign. But as Cory acknowledged in the talk, very often after an arrest is made based on solid evidence, the defendant looks very much like one or more of the composites. The Golden State killer case comes to mind. As does the recently solved Texas cold case of the murder of Carla Walker, where the drawing based on her boyfriend’s description looks exactly like the killer did at age 31, when he killed this girl.

                  Cory also mentioned that there were over 10 composite drawings and the MSP files/notes do not reflect where all of them came from or when they were drawn. Another fail. And not all of these drawings were shown to the public, then or now. Guess they really didn’t want the public’s help. They wanted this case to go away.

                  But let’s get real. That photo of John Hastings–the passport photo that was in the Birmingham PD files, safely tucked away, that presumably nobody but Don Studt saw until I posted that photo on my blog last year–that fucking photo looks more like the composite than Greg Greene’s photo with long hair. We had seen his high school photo, posted in various places online, not the 1977 “long hair” photo. Maybe that photo was sitting in the MSP files, but do you think for one minute Garry Gray or Dave Robertson would show that photo to another soul? Greene had a widow’s peak, a very distinctive hairline. Hastings did not. Greene was locked up on March 16, 1977. Hastings was not. His soon-to-be divorced parents got papers from an Oakland County court on March 16, 1977 allowing them to evict his ass from the second home on Tuckahoe that they owned, so they could immediately sell it as part of the divorce proceedings. He went for the “I was overseas” alibi, but was said to have more than one passport. I believe his family lied for him, too. His DNA doesn’t match the scant evidence that was not destroyed over the years or mishandled in this case. I wouldn’t breathe a sigh of relief just yet, John.

                  I believe that Hastings has been credibly accused as participating in child snatching (not pedophelia, but child snatching for the child sex/porn ring). On March 16, 1977, Busch’s pal Greene was in the pokey. Maybe Hastings was available to help out in the area of Hunter-Maple Pharmacy, Poppleton Park, Adams School and our street on that beautiful afternoon and evening. He was a neighbor of Busch, for FS, same age, similar dirtbag tendencies (not the pedophelia, apparently). I further believe that Don Studt was pulled off that 1992 investigation of Hastings and told to back off and he did. He later became police chief in Birmingham.

                  The late Berkley cop Ray Anger was all over David Norberg, a dirty, stinking drunk from Wayne County who also would have stood out like a sore thumb in Birmingham and scared off any kid he tried to legitimately engage. But would Anger look at Hastings? No way. His note on the 1992 polygraph “pass” for Hastings in my brother’s case (only my brother’s case) says “THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE.” The fuck it was, Ray. You and your police polygraphs.

                  And, most importantly of all, a real polygrapher in Georgia tested Hastings in the other three kids’ murder cases in 2009 and told Garry Gary at the MSP that he and his supervisor thought Hastings knew Busch (lied to cops about this) and that he was involved in these cases–directly or had knowledge. Georgia Highway Patrol offered to detain Hastings. But that information was apparently considered no good. The MSP demurred and NEVER FOLLOWED UP WITH HASTINGS. It doesn’t matter why. It matters that they deep-sixed this information and only got caught because their FOIA geniuses missed a crucial couple of paragraphs in the case notes.

                  They (Gray and Robertson) concealed the results from Det. Cory Williams, who they tried to fuck with at almost every turn, even when pretending to play nice. Then this past summer the MSP told me in a FOIA response that “too bad, so sad,” we don’t have shit about those Georgia polygraph tests in our files, so go fuck yourself. Thanks for your check. We searched for the stuff, we swear!

                  Hastings and all of his living family members need to be put under the microscope. For real this time. He has just as much information to help solve this case as does James Vincent Gunnels and Marney said as much in her presentation. I think he has gotten free passes because of concern (at the prosecutor’s office) that if he cracked, he would implicate his neighbor Busch. And we certainly couldn’t have any of that after everything had been packaged up so neatly for the “it will never be solved” ending that all of us bought hook, line and sinker.

                  Greene back on the streets after his arrest in Flint on January 25, 1977 in view of his prior crimes in Huntington Beach, CA, and his penniless status? Please. Flint PD was not going to let that guy walk, no matter what Oakland County had to say about any of it.

                  • Doug Wilson was able to give exact description of Tim. To what Tim was wearing, to the color of his skateboard. If he was able to describe Tim to a T, why couldn’t he describe the suspect as well? His description of the suspect looked nothing like Sloan, Busch, Lamborghine, Fat ass Busch . The only thing that matches was Greene’s Shag hair. THERE IS NO SUSPECT THAT MATCHES THE 3 notable COMPOSITES LIKE JOHN BOY HASTINGS.

                    Like Cathy, I feel his siblings know and are lying for him. When sister Mary was questioned about her brother, she said “ PROVE IT”. Now sister Mary and brother Mikey have found religion. They conveniently post religious themes on their social media platforms . I wonder if John boy was a patient of Mr. Danto? Things that make you go hmmm

                    • Greg Greene also found religion (in prison, of course) and also worshiped at the altar of Dubious Manipulation. It is apparently of great comfort to that flock.

                  • There were FOUR murders (at least) and the kids were held for a combined total of over a month. Multiple people participated in these crimes, I don’t know how anyone can argue otherwise. The same players were not necessarily involved in every abduction, captivity, torture, murder and body dump. Even more people had knowledge and kept their mouths shut. Shockingly, the cops gave suspects a pass if they had an alibi for any one time period in these cases, or didn’t drive a blue Gremlin, or [fill in the blank]. Even if Hastings was overseas the week of March 16, 1977, and the witness did not in fact see him that night and the composite is actually of some other man, Hastings was obviously not adequately investigated in these crimes. If you want to believe him over the Georgia polygrapher and his supervisor, that is your prerogative.

  1. I attended, it was a great presentation and having Cory there was fantastic. I really do believe in my heart that this case will be solved. Marney and Cory are heroes for never letting this go.

  2. Cathy;

    Decided to continue this excellent discussion with a new post as the old one is narrowing. Very well stated responses and thanks for explaining in so much detail.

    Part of this was that the first question asked by someone dealt with the slide shown earlier at 14:58 time on the video. It shows a very detailed OCCK composite sketch which appears to be much more detail than the previous known ones. The person asked where this detail sketch came from as it looks different. When one looks at it (14:58) with Greene photo aside it, the widows peak hairline is so obviously missing from the sketch. Have to be almost blind not to see the difference in the hairlines. The person made a comment also that the sketch looks so much more like Hastings than Greene.

    Now maybe that sketch shown just looks more detailed in quality than the one shown from newspaper as it don’t look faded at all. But there is something different about it where the details of the face are much more pronounce. Cory’s answer to the question seems to make me believe that this is the same OCCK sketch that was most commonly known. (Witness-Sketch was woman from the pharmacy) Thus I guess it’s just a better reproduction of it but something seems different about it. I think it brings out more of a match to Hastings with the passport photo that was tucked away by Birmingham Police all of these years but maybe it’s just a few of us that see this.

    • Anyone with 1/4 of a brain would know who the composites sketches resemble. Granted it may not be Hastings. It could be a suspect that’s never been mentioned; however, one thing for sure, it wasn’t scum bag Greene. If you use your brain, and you read what Doug Wilson saw, you would realize it couldn’t have been Greene. Maybe some people disregard Wilson . Beyond the shag hair you need to understand what he seen. Clean , dressed well with a tan sports jacket. Greene wasn’t clean. Greene wouldn’t wear a sports jacket. I mean what are the odds? Hastings most definitely could have worn a tan sports jacket. Matter of FACT, what kind of tan jacket is he wearing in his passport photo?

      • JN;

        Your points of Wilson are well taken along with the sports coat as it just don’t sound like Greene. One thing about Wilson though is I believe they carried much more weight into his license plate number description and since that didn’t pan out to anything, they dropped his whole testimony. Although now looking back at the potential cover-up and lack of investigation, it may be hard to say. Wish someone has access to Michigan license plates and car types where they could do their own research. Maybe McNamee would show up.

        • I think it’s a very good possibility that the other guy setting in the car could have been McNamee. He lived within walking distance from Hastings. What are the chances? Ya have Busch, Hastings and McNamee all living within walking distances. It’s not just Doug Wilson that seen Hastings talking to Tim in the Hunter Maple lot. I mean the suspect . There were two other people that seen the samething and basically the same descriptions.

  3. Catherine, this was excellent. Has any single person done a triangulation of all 4 children to see if there was a common intersect? I truly believe that this will be solved by advances in DNA. Just wish that that woman who has done all of those DNA family tree type shows would get involved

    • Susan, I believe the state police would tell you they looked for any and every possible connection between the kids and their families back in the day.

  4. I agree, Susan. The key pieces of evidence seem to be (at this point) the hair found in the Sloan Bonneville that cannot be ruled out as coming from the same source as hairs found on Mark and Tim, and the Y-str DNA developed in the past few years from Kristine’s autopsy samples. The sources of this evidence must be from a man or men who had sexual contact with these kids (at least with Kristine–Y-str is male DNA; and with Tim–hair found in his groin area). This evidence apparently does not match any of the rogue’s gallery that has been put together over the decades and probably does not match that in any criminal data base. The man or men was/were not on LE radar. That’s why genetic genealogy will be needed. The man or men who had sexual contact with these kids may not have been involved in the abductions or the murders. It will require legit, hard detective work once a DNA match is made. That will be just the beginning. The circle would then have to widen. And how about rerunning all of the evidence using the most current technology?! So much has been missed in this case. Rerun all of it and quit making excuses in advance about where the evidence might have come from. If it was from an ambulance attendant, or morgue worker, that would be easy enough to figure out. Less talk and more walk.

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