Yesterday a friend told me about a problematic neighbor at her condominium complex. This is in a very nice neighborhood in an extremely expensive city. The neighbor is an unemployed 30-year-old man with serious mental health issues he medicates by smoking crack (sharing via the ventilation system). The police are regular visitors. Neighbors feel unsafe.
The man’s father pays the rent on the condo. I’m sure he has an attorney on retainer who deals with what will probably be an escalating series of legal issues. As long as the guy isn’t living in the father’s home, I guess he thinks it’s worth it.
The story reminded me that a reader had sent me this advertisement from a college newspaper dated November 3, 1978:
H. Lee Busch bought his problem child a restaurant in Alma, Michigan. The farther from Bloomfield Village, the better. This advertisement appeared some three weeks before a Busch family problem was eradicated once and for all in Chris Busch’s bedroom at his parents home at 3310 Morningview Terrace in Bloomfield Village.
Good food always!
Discover more from The Oakland County Child Killer
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Hey Cathy, You know what I do for a living. Low income parents, typically want help for their sons. Wealthy parents, typically want the issues covered up or to go away. It does not matter if the son is 15 or 50.
More Pedophile activity. :((((
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/06/23/smiths-creek-equestrian-center-couple-charged-in-michigan-child-porn-case/70351173007/
“Detroit — A St. Clair County couple who own an equestrian center that hosts children’s birthday parties and summer camps was charged Friday with sexually exploiting children and producing child pornography.
A six-page complaint filed in federal court against Todd Alan Sabb-Visga, 47, and his 29-year-old husband, Austin Ray Sabb-Visga, of Kimball Township, describes an investigation triggered by a report that an individual was sexually assaulting children and sharing videos.
They are well-known in St. Clair County through their operation of Smith’s Creek Equestrian Center, 11 miles southwest of Port Huron. The center’s website describes “a state-of-the-art facility…with plentiful stalls, sizeable outdoor pastures, and one of the largest indoor riding arenas in St. Clair County. We offer equine boarding,” along with a petting zoo and hosts birthday parties with pony and hay rides.”
Like many other notorious locations in this case, the current site of the restaurant is an open lot. All history of this location is probably wiped clean as well.
I do find it quite ironic that the 2 minute drive from The Scotsman to Busch’s apartment in Alma takes you by Hastings Steet. Another one of those weird coincidences. Perhaps there are signs everywhere.
Yes, G-Man, the signs are always there. They are just always ignored. John Hastings’ name was turned in to the task force in 1977. He was investigated again in 1992 after Helen Dagner took information about him to police. Police used their polygraph shortcut in 1992 (he was questioned only in my brother’s case and let’s just say the questions were . . . inadequate). Police blew Helen Dagner off hard, and with the assistance of an early online cold case investigator, she published her story about John in 1999. He was the topic of discussion in various online forums for years. In early 2007, I told police Hastings had lived 0.4 miles from Busch’s parent’s house in 1976 until March 1977. That’s an 8 minute walk. In October 2009, Hastings was polygraphed in Georgia at the request of the MSP. I have written about the result of that little sit down more than once. See https://catherinebroad.blog/2021/04/28/john-hastings-2/.
Hastings’ DNA does not match whatever pathetic evidence samples it has been compared to. I believe he has been credibly accused of being in the company of Chris Busch in the child porn “rooms” in Southeast Michigan. I believe he has also been credibly accused of dressing as a woman and approaching a boy in a church bathroom.
But does anyone circle back and hit him up? Does anyone interview the Georgia polygrapher? Hell no. The online audience dating back to 1999 knows more about this person’s possible involvement than police. This man is still alive and so are his enablers. I believe he has been “protected” by his proximity to Chris Busch. We can’t go there, now can we?
That damn polygraph just leaves too many questions on the table for this case along with how the results from it have a mystery disappearance. And whom under authority was responsible for that lost? Was this before or after the great flood they had? I’ve lost track when that flood occurred or was the time placed with convenience and varies? It pisses me off when anyone involved with this case and some that are very close to the investigation side, just blow it off as nothing!!!! Please pull your head out of your ass!
What are the child porn “rooms” in Southeast Michigan? Thank you.
Places abuse and filming took place.
I agree. Law enforcement is too busy worrying about their pensions and egos than actually doing the job they swore an oath to perform.
On my honor, I will never
Betray my integrity, my character
Or the public trust.
I will always have the courage to hold
myself and others accountable for our actions.
I will always maintain the highest ethical
standards and uphold the values of my
community, and the agency I serve.
While there have been a few who have tried to do the right thing, the majority have just been too lazy, or too stupid. They just gave up because it was too complex for them, or because it would expose their inabilities to perform their jobs. So its best to just be good little robots, and follow orders. In my opinion they have no honor.
The online audience has been much smarter than LE in their analysis.
Base on my experience with this and as silly as it may sound, the problem still lies in some people’s sensitive egos that were deeply affected by the late Helen Dagner. So unfortunately the path to the the ‘real truth’ to this case (The Georgia polygraph which implies Chris Busch connection along with some type of quilt to the murders) has been buried to never see the light of day. So all that’s left thru the years is the debate to what really occurred during that polygraph to reach the strong conclusions that were documented. What did come thru in those FOIA papers between the reacted portions is as plain as day but many fail to see it even now and others will never admit to it.
Not silly at all. Most definitely one of many factors as to why the real truth has been buried.
Thru the years, I have spent a considerable amount of my time trying to convince authorities that some of Helen Dagner’s testimony is indeed accurate. In fact more than anyone can ever imagine. I even took time off from my workplace to talk to some people on numerous occasions in person although it was very difficult under the circumstances. Had someone from MSP that refused to meet me in person but left me with no resort but to to talk to him on the phone at my workplace for a couple hours. I even went around him afterwards to others involved with the investigation which made him more mad when he called me back later. My impressions of him are not good and gives me all the more suspicion of him burying things. Marney’s little coverage on the matter even convinces me all the more of this knowing what happened afterwards. I’m just furious as hell that here we are all of these years later and still no insight on what those polygraph results really are from the limited stunning conclusions that were readable in those FOIA papers. Perhaps someone can take some quotes out of those polygraph conclusions and read them to someone in law enforcement and get their opinion. But please don’t let them know any details of Helen Dagner beforehand so the opinion weighs on the polygraph matter itself only. This case is no where near being solved and I believe some of the answers are as plain as day in whatever occurred during that polygraph in Georgia. Someone needs to get off their high horse and determine exactly what those conclusions really represent and what really was documented on the testing itself. I suspect JH spilled his guts out for them to draw the conclusions that they did. And what is so apparent now is someone has went through tremendous effort to bury any trace of it.
Yes, I am familiar with much of your story and have read your comments in the past.
You did the honorable thing then, and continue to do the honorable thing. These other people have no honor. They hide behind their positions or badges to protect their pensions, reputations and organizations. You have the truth on your side. Many have had to retire/move out of state because they know they are in the wrong and cannot look people in the eye about this case.
Like many others, I would like to know more details over the 13 month period that the murders occurred. However, you are correct. The cover up is now approaching 50 years running. This also is disturbing.
It is head-exploding. Inquisitor goes back to the time when the MSP was doubling-down with two dumb and disrespectful detectives. The perfect men to assign to this “cold [dead] case.” But yes, it goes beyond that. The cover-up continues to this very minute and with this and other agencies. The “disappearance” of the GBI’s polygraphs of Hastings goes beyond the mis or malfeasance of Dets. Dumb and Dumber. Think about it: The MSP never truly asks the public for help in this case and they ignore or shit on anyone who comes forward. The rest, who live with what they did or knew and stayed silent about–they feel good about their choice. They got to retire with a pension and their reputations. They rationalize what they have done. The world is a worse place for what they did and of course they can live with it. That’s who they are.
I remember Helen showing me some of her IP traces where their office would be camping on her website all day long. Almost like that was their full time job. Very pathetic but I really didn’t take notice on anything until my discussion with one of them. I couldn’t believe how emotional he got over the phone about Helen Dagner. Very unprofessional and almost like I was talking to a junior high kid which matched Helen’s personality in some ways. Have to ponder if they buried the polygraph testing results or was it someone else (Maybe J. Cooper’s crew?). What is your best guess?
Dumber wasn’t smart enough to purge the very notes he wrote about the discussion with Steve Duncan; shocking information actually. Dumb and Dumber were vindictive and small enough to get rid of the polygraph info, but it feels bigger than that to me. And why wouldn’t anyone circle back to that polygrapher? Is it just a case of investigator bias? But how TF did they ignore what Duncan told them about Hastings FFS?? That was in October 2009! FOURTEEN YEARS AGO. Some of the FOIA redactions were actually quite cunning. And they miss this one? Nothing to see here. I guess the MSP, after asking for GBI’s help, decided their work product couldn’t be trusted?
BLK 02868
“At the end of the conversation with Inspector Duncan, the undersigned asked him is (redacted) knew our current two main suspects, Christopher Busch and Gregory Greene.”
My question is, when did MSP ever consider Busch and Greene “THEIR” main suspects?
I thought MSP considers any connection to Busch to be fiction?
I agree with Inquisitor. It sounds childish. MSP took their ball and went home when all the other players were performing better than them. Then they return later with their ball when all the better players were not on the playground.
If I recall all of this correctly, the two grand juries were going on around the same time as Debbie’s lawsuit. I didn’t always believe Helen when she told me things but she was persistent that Paul Walton and company was investigating JH at that time as a OCCK suspect. She would give me some details of their discussions they had and was even getting excited over it at times. So it was hard for me to dismiss her claims although I actually did at the time and never paid too much attention. At this same time, Debbie’s story got wrapped around this ‘mystery Bob’ character which kind of threw a fringe blanket over that as well along with the lawsuit but my understanding from her and her lawyer was that the real motive behind it was they wanted the OCCK case to be taken over by the DOJ where maybe something could be done with it. To my understanding, the key to part of the lawsuit was that the MSP was incompetent in their work and that the lawsuit was a way to get the OCCK case out of their hands. Perhaps it was all wishful thinking on their part. Anyway with all of this going on, years later I wondered if they really were closing in on JH as a suspect like Helen has told me and ran across the old polygraph testing and decided that there was no way they could ever pursue it. With the lawsuits and such going on and that they didn’t want to ever see this stuff come to the surface and decided to bury the whole thing. Can you imagine all that took place at that time to see JH come to the surface as a suspect? Seems like the Arch Sloan made the news shortly after I had those discussions with Helen. I have no idea when the FOIA papers were being prepared for release relative to all of this and surely they were in a hurry to get those out. Some things leaked thru in the FOIA papers obviously which is why we still have discussions on this today. I often wonder if we will ever know what was covered during those grand juries during death bed confessions in the future similar to the Jon Benet Ramsey stuff got leaked. What’s everyone’s thought on this?
How interesting, Inquisitor, that when the OCP office responded to my FOIA request, not one page covered JH. I say that not to prove Cooper/Walton never looked at JH, just to say that by the time Karen McDonald took office and found the OCCK records–what was left of them–it was just basically a worthless stack of paper detailing the Sloan lead.
It may very well be the case as both you and I know that we can’t believe everything Helen has told us but for me personally, I just remember having rather long phone discussions with her over the matter and with some details given. As far as Debbie, I met her first at Barry’s presentation as you know I talked to him briefly as well. There is a news photo of Debbie, her lawyer and Barry on stage in the background at his presentation in Troy. Luckily for me, the photo just shows the back of my head. Photo was shown on Helen’s website at one time or another. For a witness I have gotten more involved with this case than anyone can imagine. I was so drawn into it after waking up to what I witnessed at Big Boy years later and having the cops deny me right from beginning. It all sounds like something more crazy than a fiction story and I couldn’t help being curious and drawn into it more. I actually got Debbie and Helen to meet up together for the first time. They lived in the same town in northern Michigan and for me, it was a camping trip to the area where all three of us got together. Helen and Debbie did communicate some afterwards on the phone but like everything else, Helen has burned every bridge she has ever had with anyone. My heart goes out to Debbie and everyone else that’s been impacted. Anyone that’s been hiding information on this case should burn in hell ! Come forward now before you end up there!
Cathy, I remember the last time we talked and discussed this which was probably a couple years ago now, I remember we covered a lot of ground in a short time and I expressed my concern and curiousity over these discussions I had with Helen over details of the Grand Jury. I remember you didn’t seem to think there was anything to it back then as well. So maybe it’s just bunk. What gets me going though was that Helen was excited over things the way she talked about it and this went on for weeks. Maybe she’s the type that gets excited over her own lies at times, who knows? I would think by now that if there was anything to it that someone else more involved with the Grand Jury would have said something by now. I’m just curious and I will spend the rest of my life wondering about some of this. Your expression ‘head exploding’ is an understatement.
The grand jury convened by Cooper was merely a method to put a shroud of secrecy over the entire case and as a way to fabricate a felony against my dad when she and Walton falsely accused him of leaking grand jury info. The grand jury was bullshit. I don’t discount that they may have caused Helen to believe they were doing things on the case they had no intention of following through on. We know Helen could be a fabricator and that she, like a few others out there, wanted to keep control of the narrative. But that is nothing compared to the duplicity of Cooper and Walton. Trust me, that shit was smoke and mirrors.
Is it possible they did investigate JH and found the connection to Chris Busch and decided to bury the entire damn thing. Polygraph results along with the original sketch of Mark which I still believe is connected. Turn around and throw the Arch Sloan thing out there to make it look like they did something. It’s just speculation, I know.
Yes. It’s entirely possible.
G, That is a really good question and I didn’t mean to steer the conversation away from it although I did. What I recall at the time of the Georgia interview that it was purely to ask JH if he knew Busch. There was really no other reason as far as I know. He denied it at the time and Gary & Cory returned to Michigan and cleared JH from the record books. All hell broke loose later during the polygraph and who knows what really did take place as no one from Michigan was present.
Not a problem. I thought it was a good discussion between you and Cathy.
As for my question, it was something that struck me funny. Here is another one.
The following line in the FOIA:
“Duncan said that Busch did bring up the guy who committed suicide (Busch), and when asked if he thought that (redacted) knew Busch, he stated absolutely.”
Notice that the line says “Busch did bring up the guy”, when it should have said Hastings. Maybe I’m wrong, but this slip up tells me that Busch may have been the main focus on the writer’s mind in this document, not Hastings. Even though Duncan was polygraphing Hastings to clear him.
Interesting observations. Not sure how to interpret.
G-Man Great discussion. When I went over those papers years ago where Gary & Cory are interviewing JH, I couldn’t get over how suspicious JH sounded. My impression was that Cory seemed laid back some while Gary was running the show but seemed to sound like an idiot at doing so. Perhaps I read it that way as I already had an opinion of Gary from the several discussions I had over the phone with him. He almost seemed like he was hand waving JH to help get thru the ordeal.
Finding out years later what really happened in Georgia seems to paint a clearer picture even more. Not only the polygraph which followed later (Gary wasn’t there to help coast JH thru it!) and I guess the arguments that Gary & Cory had on the flight down there and back base on Marney’s book. Like documented, of all things the arguments was over Helen Dagner. Could anyone have ever guess that? It seemed like Cory was taken off the task force shortly after that with no explanation although we all know quite well what happened. So since you are going over this now and it’s fresh in your mind and this thread is nearly disappearing at the bottom for anyone to read it, bounce me more thoughts on it if you’re open for it. It sure reads like the stage was being set for things to follow. Something you only see in movies.
I will have to read the JH interview again. I also remember thinking GG was hand waving, conveniently interrupting, or changing the subject to assist the interviwee. I just can’t remember if it was JH, Gunnels or possibly both.
I also agree with your comment about Sloan. That new revelation about having a living suspect is too convenient. DNA now appearing with a possible match also too convenient. Why would they release that and violate the very rules that could jeopardize their careers. Perhaps they knew they had protection, and was using another example of misdirection by the person or entity that was controlling the narrative.
Lastly, I am always open for discussions.
G-Man I will be real curious what your impressions are now when you go over that again. Seemed like GG was helping JH get through it. In contrast, it would be interesting to see if he did the same with Sloan. Maybe he’s got buried evidence on both?
Correction – Oppppss – I meant Gunnels.
You just did what I said in my comment. Like GG had Busch on his mind and meant JH, you did the same thing with Sloan on your mind, and meant Gunnels.
Cathy, one very last note on this. If you ever find out that there was indeed something behind this idea discussed, I would further like to have a discussion with you over it as I remember some further details about what Helen told me. Thinking back on it now, some of it seems plausible.
Let me pull together all of the shit I have on JH once and for all. Not that it will make any difference, as no one will ever circle back to him. I don’t believe anyone associated with that OC Grand Jury voodoo on the OCCK case will ever speak of it. That was Cooper’s entire motivation. It is a secret proceeding; releasing info is a felony. I think her goddamn office leaked the existence of this grand jury–it is a common prosecutor ploy. Get it out in the ether but no one can talk about it. Hey, we’re doing something here, voters! No one can discuss it–not witnesses, not the grand jurors.
Well she sure leaked out the Arch Sloan car stuff which was suppose to be kept sacred for the case. Some of those politicians remind me of current doings at the federal level where they contradict themselves whenever it’s convenient but that’s a different book in a different chapter.
The theme is the same. People in positions of public trust who shirk (or worse) their basic civil duties and violate their oaths and the people around them who stay silent or participate. Add on the average constituent who just can’t believe said public servants would ever do such things, and the brick wall is complete. Problem neutralized.
Cooper leaked the information at a press conference on Tuesday July 17, 2012.
On the morning of Wednesday July 18, 2012 Barry King won his lawsuit, and Oakland County prosecutors had to reveal to him the evidence they attempted to have sealed, explain why that evidence should be exempt from a FOIA request, and present that evidence to King and his attorney.
Sounds like OCP’s hand was forced to release something to get some sort of political win. Smoke and mirrors is correct.