Oakland County informants had deep, controversial ties to law enforcement.

Tip of the iceberg, Oakland County. You can start with the easy one–former assistant prosecutor Greg Townsend and his problems with the basic constitutional requirement of disclosing information that could help confirm the innocence of a defendant.  Then how about your previous prosecutors, some of their “select” staff, Sheriff Mike Bouchard, Det./Sgt. Gary Miller, Det./Sgt. David Wurtz (of “get lost, John Hastings comes from a good family” fame)? Wake up. Paying for an independent counsel is only the first installment on what you should ultimately be required to pay out. Almost five decades of sketchy shit. Cleaning house gonna get expensive. Time to pay the piper.


See also https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/56938161/posts/3340967423.

38 thoughts on “Oakland County informants had deep, controversial ties to law enforcement.”

  1. Ya great role model family. Daddy was a great man. Sister Mary even better like her comment when questioned about her brothers involvement she simple said” prove it”.

  2. They cover for child killers in those Oakland woods. Even dispose of evidence such as DVDs and such.

    1. Biggest piece of evidence which modern forensics could possibly make a connection between Chris Busch and the OCCK killer himself is the sketch of Mark left at Busch’s murder scene which comes up missing from storage in recent years. Someone probably saving it to sell on ebay. No case ever in history is as fucked up as this!

  3. Hmm.

    In the Juwan Deering case, the prosecutors relied on the old “jailhouse snitch” evidence against the suspect.
    What kind of jury actually believes any testimony from any jailhouse informer?

    On a larger note, I have argued for years that the key to the OCCK cover up lay in protecting the identities of the informants relating to this case.

    Former Oakland County prosecutor Jessica Cooper (subtly) confirmed one such spectacular example when, in a conversation in 2012 with reporter Marney Rich Keenan, Cooper implied that the kid-glove handling of Chris Busch was due to the feds desire to preserve Busch’s status as an informant in some (unnamed) future case, (possibly related to the Fox Islands Ring.)

    Keenan reported Cooper’s reasoning on page 212 of “The Snow Killings”, a passage that I think is vital to this case.

    Were other key figures in the OCCK case shielded from real investigation thanks to their undercover connections to law enforcement?

    Probably, and if so, that explains the incentive for the cover up decades later.

    1. Paul, I would just say that there is nothing subtle about Jessica Cooper. Calculating, yes. Subtle, no. She wishes the reason Busch walked was because he was a CI for the feds. “[T]here was nothing in the file to explain why Busch was given a plea deal four times over.” Shocker.

    2. And what kind of a jury believes testimony from a jailhouse snitch? A jury in a county where many judges have close ties to the prosecutor’s office. A jury who is “guided” by a prosecutor and a judge at every fucking turn in a case. In a county where the rules have been bent for decades. The arc does not bend toward justice there.

  4. If any of you reside in Metro Detroit, The Detroit Free Press has a big front page article today. In contrast , The Oakland Press, where Oakland County is, does not.

  5. Sgt David Wurtz that once answered OCCK related phone calls has been telling the public for decades that Helen Dagner fabricated the whole John story. He claims that John never told Helen any of those things. It was just Helen’s imagination however the FOIA papers with what was able to be deciphered from what’s left sure tells a different story altogether. It states that John was absolutely involved with the OCCK murders someway. I’m curious what does Oakland’s top crime analyst have to say about Duncan’s polygraph conclusions on John? Maybe he can see the original reports. Can we get someone to interview him to ask? Show him the sketches and how much they match John from that time period. (Both OCCK 1st composite & Doug Wilson’s hypnosis sketch that was buried all of this time) He must have something to say about it or is it better just to pretend there’s nothing there and it will just go away?

  6. Focus on corrections. The other stuff was a dog and pony show designed to both confuse and pacify the families and the general public.

    1. Forgive my deep frustration, but get one of those fuckers to come clean. I’m guessing the OCP and the MSP would lean hard on someone still employed there, but if they have their retirement, what is the problem? That’s a lot of bad Karma to carry around for all these decades. They THINK they know something–they should speak up. Do they have proof? Or is it just hearsay and speculation? Are they aware of details of a cover up? THEY should call a reporter and blow the whistle. I can’t find these people, and these are generally the kind of people who close ranks and side with evil if they have to, rather than speak up. Their conscience hasn’t bothered them for many decades, so I’m not seeing it, but there is always hope someone isn’t a fucking shit heel. If they are unionized, speak with a union rep and get some protection. I have no police powers–just how do I focus on Corrections? I can’t even get an honest FOIA response from the MSP or a return letter/call from the OCP or the AG. Either a whistleblower comes forward from the OCP, MSP or you are saying Corrections, and I mean comes forward large and willing to go to the press, or we are stuck slogging this out the slow, painful and expensive way indefinitely. These are people who stayed silent on the backs of at least four dead children. I can’t investigate Corrections; I can’t investigate the 17-plus men people have told me in the past decade that they know in their hearts is the OCCK. File a FOIA request on your suspect. Start demanding answers from the people getting PAID to solve crime in Michigan and those who oversee them. To have a bunch of volunteers working on this shit, in the face of roadblock after roadblock by law enforcement, is not only utterly outrageous, but a travesty of justice.

      1. Hi Cathy,
        Are you able to name the poi that these 17 men think is the occk.


          1. My mistake sorry.
            I was hoping the vidoq society would look into these unsolved crimes
            But they need the co-operation of law enforcement.


            1. Exactly. Just like the FBI waits for the locals to ask for help, which OC apparently does all the time in the disappearance of mob-connected Jimmy Hoffa.

              1. Correction Vidocq society
                Made up of retired homicide detectives and FBI agents who investigate unsolved homicides.


    1. It’s only me, Marney Keenan and a few intrepid volunteers. “In general” would mean McDonald or Nessel and they have shown no interest in this or any other angle.

  7. Is it worth the while to try a FOIA request directly with the Georgia Highway Patrol? It may be a different set of people than who you dealt with by email. Maybe older records are stored elsewhere that some are not aware of. It would be interesting if they provide a more professional response than Michigan. It would actually speak volumes if that was the actual case.

    1. The MSP conveniently lost the DVD on the society rejects polygraph reading. It looks like they are brushing the Georgia polygraph under the rug. This mother fucker was at Hunter Maple on March 16, 1977 at 8:30pm. Doug Wilson composites is identical to John Hastings. There’s no other even 1/4 close to matching them. If he admitted to those murders to Helen and he did. The Alpena witness “ Bill” cleared that confession. Who else could John boy admit the crimes to? He obviously doesn’t have an issue talking. We need Nessel to investigate this mother fucker yesterday .

    2. If you look carefully, I sent the FOIA request to the address for GHP FOIA inquiries. https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/56938161/posts/3312473275. See: https://dps.georgia.gov/ask-us/how-do-i-submit-open-records-request. I did not use the form, I sent a letter with a full explanation and supporting documents to demonstrate the gravity of the request. The response was prompt and professional. According to the response, in accordance with their record retention policies, the materials were ditched. Keep in mind this was not an “open case” for Georgia, just a professional courtesy extended to the MSP. They told me Steve Duncan still worked for the GA Department of Public Safety. I tried emailing him. I thought he might have a recollection of what must have been a fascinating discussion between him and Garry Gray after Duncan reported this obvious fail and Gray said “thanks, but no thanks.” Two of three email addresses bounced back. Maybe he didn’t receive the third email. More likely, he is closer to a Garry Gray or a Dave Robertson than a Cory Williams or a Tom Waldron on the “do the right thing” scale or as someone willing to speak with a mere civilian.

      It’s time to face facts. The Hastings lead was not only ditched because of Helen Dagner, but primarily because John Hastings leads directly to Chris Busch and the child sex ring in OC and therefore to H. Lee Busch and whatever he had going on with his predilections or with the OCP office in 1977 and 1978. I think Birmingham PD was pulled off of the Hastings investigation in 1992 and the person who was called off understood why he was being called off. Furthermore, you know how the MSP loves polygraphs, and Hastings allegedly passed the poly on Tim’s case in 1992. They love polygraphs until one of their boys fails. And of course, they get to redact their lame and inadequate polygraph questions because somehow that information is going to tell the public some inside secret about how they do this intense police work. Anyone who has watched t.v. over the past 50 years has some idea of the obvious questions that will be asked. Starting with “Have you ever stolen anything in your life?”

      Hastings is walking this earth. The OCP and the Michigan AG have no interest in this angle. I think I have done just about everything that could be done here, don’t you?

      1. Hi Cathy;

        Thanks so much for further explaining this further. I overlooked that detail. You’re relentless efforts to getting to the truth are very admirable.

        It was my understanding from Alpena Witness a few years back when I talked to him, that he described Detective Gray as very emotional over the phone about Helen Dagner making claims he wasn’t doing his job. He described Gray as very emotional and kind of immature nature over the matter. He was puzzled someone professional would behave this way. I guess he talked to him at his work place on the phone a couple times and was annoyed by the whole discussion he had with him. I believe this was before they even went down to Georgia to swab JH the first time. If this is true, I question all actions that Detective Gray has taken in the investigation of JH even go as far as are the swab tests on JH accurately him? If Gray further disposed the DVD before retirement which sure seems to be the case, it makes me question this even more now days. Reading further with Marney’s book over the Gray/Williams confrontations on the way down to Georgia over Helen matters makes me further suspicious of Gray and his actions. I will bet my cards that the cover up of JH deals more with Gray’s personal grudges to Helen than the Busch connection although that sure makes it all the more a reason.

        Whoever took over the OCCK case and it’s files (If anyone really did?) has no clue about the buried history of this whole damn thing. It is extremely hard to comprehend and believe by anyone’s perspective. Hopefully they make some moves in the positive direction to try to clean up this mess.

        1. I agree, Gray’s ego, lack of professionalism and lack of vision in this case contributed mightily to tossing the Hastings lead. Hastings is one lucky motherfucker.

          1. That fucking lunatic is lucky today. That being said” tomorrow his luck could run out”. Hopefully God intervened and ends his luck. I’m hoping since Corey has retired that some new detectives take an even more powerful interest in this case and get their assess down to Georgia and finish what’s been started. It seems like the powers at be wants everyone to forget about this case. Much like the JFK assassination and GHB involvement. Brush it off until there’s no remaining people left that lived through the crimes.

      2. Hi Cathy,

        Yes, you have done just about everything, yet you will find more to do. You are a relentless fighter for truth and justice.

        Regarding Duncan –

        Although he is retired as a public employee, it looks like Steve Duncan is still active as an instructor and/or leader in the Georgia Polygraph Association and the American International Institute of Polygraph (based in GA), and is available for private examinations. He has won multiple awards from the American Polygraph Association. So has Larry Wasser.

        Has Patrick Coffey felt comfortable contacting Duncan? Perhaps that is a non-starter because of Wasser.

        Take care.

        1. The last time Mr. Coffey posted on here he was still on this ‘Helen had fraud charges against her for some fake Jill Robinson fund ‘ she supposedly started. All this was is simply a fake rumor that Helen’s rivalries started on the internet that got passed around many years ago. Someone asked Patrick on here to provide proof which he never did but still seems to pursue it. Seems like he’s been making this claim for years now although it was never true in the first place and he’s been corrected many times over for it. It is true that Helen did have fraud charges but they were not related to OCC in any way and were earlier before her having meetings with her suspect in 91. That was why the rumor seemed to ring some truth to it. Patrick should know better though because if Helen did have a charge like he proposes, it would surely be documented on record somewhere. Patrick simply wants to condemn any ideas of JH being a suspect and will go to great measures to do so. This is based on his many posts going back to Topix years ago and including right on FB’s OCCK forum recently. Although Busch is still involved with OCCK crimes in some way and Coffey was the one that broke the case wide open by uncovering what he did, I for one question his judgement on JH involvement or the work of any other polygrapher’s credentials for that matter. Purely speculation here but there might be a good chance that this might be why Duncan does not want to get involved with this in any way at this time. Once again there is a crazy history to this whole thing that makes it so over the edge of believing and comprehending.

  8. I’m trying to understand what kind of world this is where Michigan pays money to send people to Georgia to get a polygraph done…suspect raises all kinds of red flags and polygrapher is convinced that the suspect has something to do with the murder of 4 small children, or knows who did it. Michigan then doesn’t follow up on one of the biggest criminal cases in it’s history, loses the DVD(s), and Georgia stonewalls as well. What in the hell is behind this given the murders happened over 40 years ago? You would think such solid evidence would be followed up on immediately in a normal world. They dug up Norberg – maybe they never believed he was a real suspect so it was ‘safe’? I think they dug up a Gremlin, they tore through Busch’s old house, so they are willing to spend money. But it does make you wonder when there is something as solid as a trained professional stating his concerns and the state refuses to pursue it.

    Cathy, I know you have done so much, but is there a summary of this case that shows where Michigan is remiss and how this case needs to be worked on soon before all possible suspects die? It could be sent to Geraldo, John Walsh, major media outlets, etc. I’d be willing to help in any way possible. I am guessing the only way Michigan will do anything is with the threat of exposure, if even then.

    Also, Brooks is dead, what are they protecting???

    1. Sadly all it would take is showing the OCCK sketch side by side with JH photo and a couple quotes from Duncan’s conclusions and the public would go nuts asking and demanding answers. No one wants to cover that though! The closest we got was someone quietly sitting in front of an old fashion typewriter with a typed message that Helen Dagner was notified that the DNA was not a match shown in The Snow Killings documentary for about 1.5 seconds.

    2. Brooks is dead but all of his enablers are not. Nor are all of the child-raping monsters who survived all of this, reputation intact, thanks to law enforcement looking the other way and their disgusting family members who protect them. This was rape and sexual assault of children–of people who do not have the capacity to consent to sexual activity of any kind, not “molesting” or “kid-diddling.”

      Michigan clearly feels no threat of any exposure whatsoever, especially Oakland County. Anyone still living who participated, looked the other way, should have known–will just make vociferous denials until they paint themselves as the real victims here.

      Norberg was a cynical ploy; a farce. Patterson and Ray Anger took that to their graves. I believe the magic Sloan hairs and the attending press conference fall into the same category.

      With the help of a few other people who understand this case, I put together two very long letters to Prosecutor McDonald in January outlining all of the loose ends and the obvious shit that has gone down in this case. I got a phone call back in mid-January acknowledging receipt, but have heard nothing since. I have since learned more and would have written the letters differently if I knew then what I know now. June 10 will make five months since I received any communication whatsoever. I will post all of it on June 10 if I have not heard anything more by then. I have not heard “thanks for your time; we can’t take this on right now;” “we haven’t forgotten about you,” “we are still giving this thought,” “we have some ideas but can’t speak with you about them,” “we are exploring sending this to another agency”–anything. So, staffers at the OCP who read my blog–you have until the 10th to get back to me. You can side with Patterson, Cooper and Bouchard, as well as still living pedophiles who were in the nasty child sex/porn ring in your county, or you can do the right thing. It’ll be much harder than the troubles with Greg Townsend, but maybe that can be a warm up for you. Your systemic issues are so reflected in the OCCK case.

  9. I to this day don’t understand why the local media hasn’t really mentioned John Hastings. It took a questionable lady to bring this lunatic out in the open. Even after all of the so called coincidences with John Boy nothing has really been said about him. He’s been brushed off as a suspect . The pure fact that no other suspect looks like the composites more than Hastings. Then let’s throw in the failed polygraph. Those two things alone DEMAND answers . There’s more to John boy that I’m not going to go into. Why isn’t Heather Catallo mentioning him? Why hasn’t Steven Spielberg done a film on this case? This is the BIGGEST unsolved murders in US history. Where are the Fucking answers ? John Walsh, why haven’t you profiled this case? Fuck H L . So what’s next? Let Johnny continue to drive a limo in Georgia until his heart gives out?

    1. If they ever do catch up with him, just imagine all the finger pointing that will take place.

  10. Heather Catallo! Kevin Dietz! Where are you? So many suspects you’ve paraded in the past. After all of these years you can finally show someone that matches the OCCK sketch and description to a tee! Doug Wilson Hypnosis sketches that was stored in a closet all of these years are now revealed. How about showing that and maybe the public might remember something that might help this case! Long overdue – let’s go!

  11. I wrote Heather Catallo a month ago and of course no response. She’s useless . They all are useless. I have zero confidence in any news media or law enforcement pertaining to these cases. I’ve even messaged a few siblings asking a few questions. Of course as expected no response lol

    1. Media folks, I’m sure they get thousands of emails and I believe with the OCCK they’ve been so saturated with ‘false’ OCCK leads thru the years to cover that’s it’s difficult to pick up on another one. JH has been discussed with Keven Dietz at one time or another at some social events. If the right person makes the right connection with this, it could really fly. Need an author that can publish an article or book that puts it all into proper perspective than the fire will be lit. Appleman came the nearest by putting JH in the right places at the right times but then erased him in his later chapters with no explanation. None of the JH family member are going to come clean with what they know. They’ve never really been pressured to do so. The FOIA papers and their actions thru the years sure indicate they’re hiding something but whose going to do anything about it? Afterall, they have the lord on their side.

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