Does this sound like someone who passed a polygraph?

As detailed in Marney Keenan’s book, The Snow Killings, in the summer of 2009, a person of interest was polygraphed in Atlanta–a neighbor of Chris Busch; John Hastings. (Pages 139-40). This man had been on the radar screen of law enforcement since the very beginning. In 1992, Birmingham PD gave him a big pass. In 2009, Det. Garry Gray with the MSP gave him another pass, along with a cheery “stay in touch!”

Thank you to a careful reader who located the following passage from the FOIA documents concerning this “passed” polygraph by Hastings. I will say this: It took lawsuits, appeals, over $11,000 plus attorney fees to get a pile of redacted documents from the Michigan State Police. A pile of documents wherein they neatly tucked photos of my brother’s dead body. If you have read The Snow Killings, you know this is right up the alley of Garry Gray and Dave Robertson. Very clever, gentlemen. If you have grandkids, I hope you remember this little stunt every time you look at them.

As with any big document response, redactions can be made with a heavy hand and still result in a few slip ups.

As another reader observed, the public should both fear the killers and the system. Outside of Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy, there is no one who has seriously taken on the corruption within the system. In this case, there is plenty.

The kind of corruption that allows a man like this to slip through the cracks on so many occasions. It cannot be explained by laziness and mistakes. An accomplice, an accessory, felony murder. These labels may apply to a number of still-living people in this case. Some people are still alive who are left holding the bag. It is the job of law enforcement to make good on their oath of office, not make assumptions that allow for a quick ditching of suspects or information. You know there are still LE alive who don’t want this case solved, no matter what bullshit they tell the occasional reporter who inquires about the status.

People are alive who participated in these crimes and/or have information they should have come forward with. There are apparently no good cops from back in the day who know how this thing got shut down and want to talk. Cowards, all of them. The system may be irrevocably broken in Oakland County, Michigan.

No, this does not in any way sound like someone who passed a polygraph. It sounds like big ego-ed state police deciding they couldn’t handle the truth, most certainly not if a civilian like Helen Dagner dished it up.

35 thoughts on “Does this sound like someone who passed a polygraph?”

  1. Mind boggling still is Garry Gray “claims” to be a Christian man, yet his worth ethic and behavior are anything but….
    Remember how he quit the task force and it was his daughter who reminded him of his promise to Debbie Jarvis? No words!!!!!

    1. Let me rephrase. There are no cops from that era who know the truth about this investigation and are willing to talk honestly. Whether they be “good” or “dirty.”

  2. Cathy, I thought i read somewhere that Hastings was an artist (besides being a BS Artist).
    Is there any way to trace that drawing on Busch’s wall back to Hastings? It was reported that Busch could not draw anything but flies.



    1. According to Marney’s book, the actual drawing itself and the ligatures found in Busch’s bedroom were tossed as part of a “routine” purge. This in spite of the fact that David Metzger from the MSP lab noted in his reports that the ligatures be kept in evidence for any future necessary examination. Paul Walton would rather focus on the fact that despite the fact the ligatures look like there is blood present, Metzger is “sure” there was no blood present. More gaslighting. Here is what matters: 1. Ligatures, bloody or not, are found piled up on the floor of a sexual predator and pedophile’s walk-in closet. 2. Despite the fact that Metzger said SAVE THIS SHIT, the evidence is tossed in the biggest unsolved case in Michigan history.

      If in fact the drawing was also tossed—and all we have are photocopies—that means no modern day analysis of any kind, including for fingerprints, is now impossible. Every person interviewed by Cory Williams and/or Marney Keenan, commented on the shocking nature of that drawing. How convenient that it cannot be carefully examined.

  3. This is exactly what I have been wondering since I read the FOIA documents months ago. Why has nobody followed up with this 2009 polygraph? Why did they even do it in the first place? You finally get an unbiased person from out of state who says the guy is involved yet LE doesn’t care? Ugh!

  4. Cathy, I’ve always thought John Hastings was a viable suspect. There’s WAY too many coincidences surrounding this guy. The composites they have of the guy seen with your brother looks identical to Hastings. I’d like to know what John drove back then.
    Cathy, when I was young I lived by a detective that was working the case. He was friends of the family and he said “ that he knew who did the killings and he was in a mental institution, but for some reason they couldn’t pin him. He also said that the guys mom worked at Royal Oak BEAUMONT “. Now I do know that John Hastings has been in and out of mental institutions his adult life. Coincidence? You can’t tell me that Hastings and Busch didn’t know each other . Same age and living one street from each other. Let’s say Helen Dagner was a nut case. Why would she make up such an elaborate lie like this? The gentlemen at the Alpena Big Boy hearing John Hastings talking about how he killed the kids. I hope law enforcement isn’t done with this guy.

  5.           Cathy,       I have read over this information about John Hastings, and his 2009 polygraph test.  What is lacking here is a diagnostic finding mathematically that his charts were D.I / Deception Indicated vs. perhaps Inconclusive. It needs clarification vs. somebody’s “Feeling” or hunch.   I have not previously heard of his failing a test from Cory, or any other source.   To date, the only information we know for sure is that his ONLY accuser is the late Helen Dagner.  Helen enjoys the unique status of having no legal credibility as a Felon, and who is the only convicted person of a crime related to the OCCK case.  That crime was felony fraud in a scam to raise money related to a supposed fund for Jill Robinson.  Further, upon her being convicted, I’m told it caused her Police Officer husband to get fired from his job, and that he in turn went home and ate a bullet for breakfast from his own gun.  Helen no doubt had to live long term with that fact, and may be why she was so embittered, if not naturally that way already.  They say one should not speak ill of the dead, but she was who she was.      Helen Dagner remained obsessed with Hastings as her suspect over the years; the only positive biproduct of which was to become the best archivist of the overall case online.  I corresponded with her several times back and forth, as well as openly online.  She once made the claim to me that she was the only person to have seen a pic of Tim King taken while he was in captivity shown her by Hastings, but which she later recanted to law enforcement as not true.  She admitted she lied to keep her website active.     All in All, Helen the Felon was not, nor was she ever, a reliable witness against John Hastings, nor any other person; both in her felon legal status, nor in her observed documented open conduct with those on her website or ongoing contact with law enforcement.  What she brought forward about Hastings was mere hearsay.   She even claimed that her husband as a Police Officer was the one that responded to the call about Busch having juveniles at his Ess Lake cabin, when this in fact was not even his jurisdictional patrol area, and far removed from it.     What we know of John Hastings is that he has no criminal record in Michigan or elsewhere.  We also know that actual pedophiles don’t stop their pursuit of children, whether they work alone or with others.  Hastings just does NOT fit the profile.  Much of what I read here appears to be conjecture by “Duncan” vs. a diagnostic finding being laid out.  To my mind, if you were ever looking for a Red Herring it has been Hastings due to Dagner.  Imagine, this is all based on Helen’s manipulation of this young man in what she could get him to falsely boast about over a hamburger, and witnessed in part by two others.  Helen is the poison itself in being fruit of the poisonous tree.  Further,  There is no known connection between Busch and Hastings personally, nor Hastings to any pedophile or victim child anywhere.  If I were Hastingsat the time of his second polygraph, I can envision his dealing out attitude when his only obsessed accuser was a known felon and had no legal or personal credibility.    

    Patrick T. Coffey 

    1. Unfortunately, all evidence in this case appears to be circumstantial, except against Gunnels (as far as I know). However, in my opinion, if Hastings spoke endlessly about these crimes, drew maps, etc, he had no right to have an attitude over a polygraph.

      Also, wasn’t Hastings also a suspect early on? I thought there was a tip about him? Oh I remember, he told polygraphers that they were talking to every male in Metro Detroit or something like that.

      I think if he was involved, he wasn’t tied to the sexual part, but in some other way. I agree with what you said, predators like that don’t seem to just stop, and he does have a clean record.

      What bothers me is the polygraph was never followed up on and that Doug Wilson sketch. Also I seem to remember from the FOIA docs that he maybe had a car like the non-Gremlins that have been mentioned. (Could be wrong about that). Also the proximity to Busch doesn’t help.

    2. Patrick I have had the same thoughts on this myself. I had a conversation with Cathy once over this and you know it seems to me you get some people out here that are either obsessive enough to just keep adding onto a pile of lies or you get people who are schizophrenic who actually believe what they’re telling people. Every time I hear about John Hastings that’s what I end up thinking about because everything about John Hastings came from Dagner. He never denied he told her stories about the case. The real question is did he ever tell her anything that only the killer would know and that answer is an obvious NO! Just to be clear when this case was going on most of Oakland County knew where the abduction sites were and where the bodies were found so the maps he drew are worthless. If law enforcement new someone knew information that only the killer would know that person would be in custody without a doubt! To date the only one who it came forward with the most information about the local pedophiles was Lawson and Gerald Richards. Lawson was the more intriguing one because he actually got to be questioned by law enforcement over who he thought was involved. The fact they never took the time to talk to Gerald Richards is crazy to me. I say stick to evidence and credible Witnesses especially Witnesses who have inside knowledge of any of the suspects background information or eye witnesses to any of the crimes. Even with Christopher Busch I know he’s a damn good lead in this case but I cannot just say he did it. He probably had involvement but we don’t have every bit of evidence on it unless you have more creditable people come forward. I mean if Bush did it and he was the main person that means two people would have killed him law enforcement or his own family but if you assume it was a larger organization then clearly he wouldn’t have been the main suspect if he was off’d like that. I think that’s the whole purpose of all the podcasts, documentaries, and Marnie Keenan’s new book is to bring awareness of these individuals and maybe somebody will come forward with new information. Until new people come forward or new DNA technology comes out this is going to go nowhere and if you focus only on one suspect you really limit the amount of results you can get out of this case. In no way am I trying to criticize anyone or anyone else’s opinions on this case I just seem to have my own beliefs I think everybody should have their own beliefs and I think what we all need to do is just encourage more people to come out who may have been a victim of these individuals or may have it had Association with these individuals.

      1. Hello Benjamin. You seem to imply that John Hasting passed his polygraph in one of your previous post on here. Was that just from some word of mouth from somewhere? Because now with this thread it appears base on the FOIA docs themselves that he failed the polygraphs and quite miserably at that. I don’t think there is any other way to interpret it otherwise. It’s right there in print. The docs don’t show final polygraph results (Pass-Fail-Inconclusive) because where it was checked it was redacted so no one knows what they were. However as what was discussed here, the reading between the lines sure shows significant signs of a problem with him in regards to these children murders. Having both Duncan and his boss agree seems like it raises red flags. Probably more important than the results themselves. On the other hand, you seem to praise the work of investigating Richard Lawson tips on OCCK which is quite odd. Wasn’t that a waste of time and wild goose chases? Talk about a distraction. I’m trying to understand where you are coming from on this. I agree that Helen had lots of obscurity to her case but still as many have pointed out here, there seems to be way too many coincidences to this guy and it just seems to me that LE blew it off because of the very nature of it. They took their guard down and just BS themselves thru it in regards to her. In fact I know they did.

        1. Don’t know where you’re at implying because even Marnie Keenan mentioned it in her book snow killings he passed the polygraph it has been mentioned multiple times by Corey Williams as well

          1. Well then someone needs to explain these docs. Perhaps it was word of mouth that went around? Maybe Gray just told Cory he passed them? Something doesn’t add up here. It’s pathetic that we have to guess on this stuff some 11 years later!

        2. I highly disagreed Lawson is the main reason why the case got reopen re-educate yourself because Dagner wasn’t even talking about the case at all over all of these years until Lawson came out incriminating Ted lamborgine and then when Patrick coffee came out in open up about how Wasser knew about Chris bush. Helen supposedly knew this for decades but didn’t do shit until the news started reporting the obvious. Sorry but that does seem a little bit suspicious and all the living that she did and all the manipulating that she did definitely makes everything questionable. You criticize Pantry coffee on Helen dagner being arrested for a felony but did not dispute the fact that she had a felony or the fact that her husband ended up losing his job because of her. To say that Lawson was a bad tip would literally take every credibility of what you’re even trying to say about connecting dots to Bush and Hastings and make it all turn into shit because the fact of the matter is John Hastings is only a suspect because of Helen Dagner unlike all of the other suspects which seem to be tied through Chris Bush most of them have failed polygraphs which is well-known some have had evidence of DNA found in their car and others have had mitochondrial DNA match you don’t have that with Hastings. I don’t think they would have protected Hastings I could see them protecting bush and the Bush family due to the amount of money that family had and who Christopher Bush’s dad was but I don’t see that with Hastings at all. Just like Helen Decker people just want to sit on Hastings and not look at all the physical evidence that implicates other suspects in this case this is not a one suspect case and if you want to waste your time on making John Hastings the one and only suspect good luck with that because this case will never gets solved if you do that

          1. Say what? Helen had some type of internet presence involving OCCK since way before 2003 I believe. Way way before Richard Lawson news broke I believe. Your arguments are getting rather silly and not even accurate. I’m not saying Hastings is the only suspect etc etc. Back to basics – Was John Hastings investigated thoroughly?

            1. I will apologize for my typos. Its this damn voice to speech. Let me break this down for you very simply. Arch sloan failed a polygraph and refused to cooperate in a plea deal where he could get out of prison on a tether and is bound by evidence, Christopher Bush failed polygraph, Greg Greens former prison boyfriend decades after Green died broke down in tears to Cory Williams and said Green admitted to him to killing 4 kids, Vincent Gunnels fails polygraph and is a victim of Christopher Busch who had a former cellmate admit that Gunnels told him that Gunnels was molested by a man who killed 4 children, and Vincent Gunnels is also a Mt Dna match to hairs found on Kristine, Ted Lamborgine Fails polygraph and refuses another polygraph in exchange for a plea deal and better imprisonment. So as for Lawson being a horrible lead like you claimed…. Lamborgine would not be in prison today if it were not for Lawson! As for Helen Dagner she screwed up the Hastings lead the second she boasted about her involvement in this case which almost got Cory kicked off the case and lied about having evidence. I agree with Coffee primarily because all we have on Hastings is Helens words. Like Coffee has said release the poly results! It’s not that I don’t think Hastings couldn’t be a good lead. It is that Helen destroyed that lead with her ego. With all the dirt being kicked up from times past I don’t think they would protect Hastings. MSP and Oakland County look like complete shit. Sorry when I look at people like Cory Williams and Patrick Coffee who really did get this case reopened I take every bit of their remarks serious. Also Rueben J Appleman book and podcasts, Marney Keenan book, WDIV docuseries, and children of the snow didn’t put a lot of effort on Hastings because it was a bad lead. A lot of people fabricated so much BS to make it look credible then would immediately be debunked. I would love to hear Oakland County prosecutors office, MSP, and Cory Williams comment on how many reports came in on baseless claims that could only detail obvious info that was spread online or in the news. So that is what I am saying. So check and mate! Cory has been more transparent than any detective I have ever seen and after reading Marney Keenans book I realized just how much he fought for the families. Mike Stebbins even calls Cory his best friend. So for that I say Check and Mate.

              1. Benjammin

                Don’t get me wrong. First off I appreciate you trying to explain things.

                You and Patrick continue to attack Helen over her character. Although some things you state are not true about her while others is just speculation. but most things you state are probably accurate to some extent. With Patrick though, he keeps bringing up the Jill Robinson fund which was complete BS story from the beginning but keeps using it anyway.

                I’m not doubting you for most of your claims and that is not worth arguing about anyway. The fact is though and you already stated that John Hastings did tell Helen some things and drew maps. Or shall I say you suspect that happened. That alone should merit an investigation. The problem I see is you are making every excuse in the world to not investigate John Hastings and throw all the blame on Helen almost like you were personally involved with this case and perhaps you are someway. He needs to be looked at and I could care less about all of your claims on Helen . The very reasons you go after that is the very reasons why he was never investigated thoroughly in the first place.

                One possibility in all of this is that maybe John knew the right person to tell all of this to because no one from law enforcement would ever believe this woman anyway or take it seriously. A perfect shield.

                The library of FOIA papers that Cathy had posted previously illustrate a complete joke on the investigation of John in Alpena. It was very clear they didn’t believe Helen from the beginning as if she made all the stuff up. The trip to Georgia seems to read much the same however there are two people (Duncan and his boss) that seemed to be alarmed over something with John. They are both probably very experienced people with what they do. For them to make a note like this as they did speaks volumes to me! I don’t see how this compares to the typical confessions people make in prison over matters which probably goes on everyday. Yes, people confess to these crimes often and many failed polygraphs. I bet there are many we don’t know about thru the years. You still haven’t explained why they blew this off.

                You have all of this circumstantial evidence which is way beyond a coincidence but still Helen is a nut so we can’t go there?

                Whatever the case. Those docs need to be explained by someone!

              2. You and Patrick Coffey seem to ignore Alpena Witness who saw Hastings adamantly admit to the killings at the Big Boy on December 26, 1991.

                1. Yes and everything I know, he seems to be very credible. Even stated in Appleman’s book.

                  Another thing that would be nice to trace back if even possible. Who told who that John Hastings passed his polygraph? Who told Marney and who told Mr. King? etc. With what was uncovered in these docs, seems hardly likely that he passed although the last conclusion is in commentary so maybe hard to say for sure. It’s my understanding that Gray & Cory returned back to Michigan when the polygraph was conducted so they were not present. Which might further explain why there is some DVDs to document it. Let’s say he failed it. I myself tend to believe that just due to the fact that the final results (Pass-Fail-Inconconclusive) seem to be conveniently redacted out of the FOIA pages. If that is the case, who lied and stated that he passed? I have a few guesses but don’t want to make them known but many out there would guess the same.

  6. My only response to all of that is let’s start with the basics.

    I would like to see Mr. Coffey provide proof with some type of document that a felony fraud in a type of scam to raise money for Jill Robinson was done by Helen. If she really did commit a felon over this, it would be on public record stating. Patrick should be very aware of that. This is a complete fallacy much like other claims he’s making. He’s been corrected in the past for this claim but he seems to keep going back to it for some reason. That whole rumor came from KDOG with his internet battles with Helen and was completely made up by his crew. By coincidence he appears to be on here still promoting ‘punky’ which was the Les Martin creation. It is true, Helen had fraud charges but they were never OCCK related. As much of a authority that Mr. Coffey likes to put himself to be, I would like to see him get his facts straight.

    Can someone also tell Patrick that these documents he’s reviewing are directly received from Mr. King’s FOIA request. He doesn’t seem to realize that either. It’s kind of hard for anyone to fake those although maybe Helen would try to do that from her grave some way.

    I agree that polygraph tests should not be results of someone’s opinion but here Patrick starts spilling out his opinion all over the place. Duncan probably doesn’t even know the history of Helen Dagner or anything else for that matter so does that make his polygraph more valid than Patrick’s opinions here? Duncan also claims that his boss observed the entire polygraph and reached the same conclusions! That is very telling in itself. Perhaps someone should demand those so called DVDs that document the polygraph. If anyone was doing a real investigation of the OCCK they would have done that already.

    I remember reading discussions of Patrick on Topix over this matter. He was swearing up and down that the grand Jury was looking into his Chris Busch which was far from the case at the time. People tried to correct him but that didn’t matter. Patrick really needs to be accurate with his claims. While Helen did have felon charges in the past over things and served some time, does that merit the evaluation of her suspect? Richard Lawson had charges as well also but they seem to take his word as gold on everything.

    Although dead now I tend to believe that Patrick has a huge grudge against Helen and it sure shows in his writing.

    Can we get back what the real facts are here on this case?

  7. The problem is that the majority of you are NOT looking at the facts. Let’s throw Dagner out of the equation since that’s what many of you want. John Hastings was the same age as Chris Busch and he lived one street from him. What’s the chances they knew each other? DAMN GOOD. John Hastings was a good artist in school and Busch wasn’t . There was the drawing of Stebbins above Busch’s head at the suicide scene. COINCIDENCE? The composite of the suspect where Tim King was abducted looks identical to John Hastings. COINCIDENCE? John knowing and drawing maps of where the kids were abducted and dropped off. COINCIDENCE? John admitting to bumping into a lady at Hunter Maple Pharmacy . Polly said she ran into a strange man the same day. COINCIDENCE? John Hastings being in and out of mental institutions his adult life. His family not having one thing about John on their social media pages . Why? COINCIDENCES? On Johns current Face Book page his friends list are filled with people he doesn’t even know. Not one. WHY? COINCIDENCE? I’m not saying he done the crimes, but there’s something with this guy.

    1. Polly said she ran into a strange man the same day as Tim was abducted. Yes. It could have been anyone: Greene, Sloan, Lamborgine, McNamee, Hastings, Busch. There is no coincidence – it was someone. But who? Was it the killer? I can tell you whoever it was did not drive a blue or green Gremlin but did spend a lot of time driving around the long block circling Poppleton Park that afternoon and early evening. I will also tell you that John running into a woman in the pharmacy did not become known until or public until Helen heard my story and it very well could have been one of her fabrications as there is zero proof that really occurred with John. If anyone can show me where John told her this happened before I told her someone bumped into Polly, then I welcome the proof.

    2. Arch Sloan is also known to have artistic skills.
      Plus, hairs from HIS vehicle were found on two victims. You have to go where the DNA matches, Sloan’s vehicle and Vince Gunnels. Let’s hope the new OC Prosecutor will charge Vince Gunnels.

      1. Recent developments kind of indicate that there was a ‘unique’ white animal hair on each victim along with a ‘unique’ yellow carpet strand on each victim. Of course these are just rumors although it was announced at one time or another on a newscast. The odds of this naturally happening are near impossible. So very likely this was planted on each victim by some 20 year old kids playing games and whatever other motives they had. If this is all true and only if this is true, the hairs may not be completely trusted and could have been plated by the killer as well just like animal hair and carpet were. I only state this as it seems like animal hair and carpet sample if accurately described as unique per victim seems to point to that.

        Further hints in the past although not completely proven is that the boys were molested with an object after death. This seemed to be hinted once by the famous Dr Emanuel Tanay in a news article (whom worked with Dr. Sptiz) and was also very hinted at when Dr. Spitz was examining Tim. Not the autopsy report itself but the document where he’s talking to other forensic members (all names redacted) in details while examining Tim. Of course we have John Hastings that described this very same thing to Helen and this was well documented in the FOIA papers and Helen’s early writings. This was also witnessed by Alpena Witness right at Big Boy being discussed. This was all before anything known about Chris Busch making the news or anything else on those matters. It’s been a mystery what this object after death is suppose to represent or why John Hastings described such a thing but he did. Helen had many ideas which were discussed at one time or another. Maybe he heard this in the news at one time in the 70s and threw it in with his stories to Helen for good measure. Anything is possible. One possibility may be to make it look like the killer had a sexual acts with some of victims to throw police off his track? Imagine a 20 year old kid thinking something like this is even possible from an urban legend. If this is true in anyway, it sure worked because that is exactly the path they took and are still chasing down today decades later. Much of these OCCK suspects like Ted that only liked boys but are trying to be pinned as the OCCK crime that involves girls and boys. Wild goose chase if even that!

        My point in all of this and I will be the first to say it, it’s just speculation. But they better be looking at more than just a hair. The hair may not tell the whole story. Start with basics. We have two composite sketches that are very similar now. The first OCCK sketch from that time period (although there were others) and the other one from Doug Wilson hypnosis that was buried and kept underwraps for some 40 years! Are there others we don’t know about? Are there more multiple sketches from multiple witnesses that have similar traits that describe the same thing? Where’s the police work on this case that can answer that for god’s sake? We better go where that takes us. Let’s not stretch things though where we take suspects out of jail at the time because they match the sketch. This is not rocket science folks!

        Everything that the Kings and Patrick Coffey have uncovered I truly believe are accurate in regards to Chris Busch. It’s in the damn documents. But again I don’t think that tells the whole story. Someone was involved that looks a lot like those sketches. Very likely an artist and maybe even a close neighbor of his. Very likely an accomplice or two or maybe a kid with killer instincts that had his own agenda but wanted every cop in town to take a good look at Chris Busch activities. Maybe a victim of Busch at one time. So many possibilities.

    3. This is a great discussion of the case, one of the better that I’ve seen, and I don’t want to call BS in my first post but some of the jumps in logic can’t be ignored. First, as someone with a degree in psychology and some field experience, I can tell you what we all inherently know….weird people do weird things. That Hastings has a history of issues to the degree that he’s spent time institutionalized, we should expect odd behavior and not put full weight in his actions or statements. Additionally, I’ll pick on John’s statement about the drawing as an example of a logical jump. When I was a kid (13 Mile and Southfield) I was a lousy artist. A kid on the next block was a good artist and I knew him. I had a drawing in my room. Does that mean the kid drew the picture in my room? No it doesn’t, not even coincidentally.

      Sorry to call you out John, no offense and we both want the same thing.

      1. We don’t have to go back into the hundreds of pages of FOIA documents or the thousands of posts over the years about John Hastings, or talk about drawings, electric toothbrushes, manicure kits and children’s books or who blew town when in 1977 and 1978. All you need to read is the information about the Georgia polygraph as memorialized by the MSP. The MSP shut this down, again. Leaving all of the other stuff aside, this report alone means Hastings should have been squeezed very hard in the aftermath of this polygraph. That’s how polygraphs are used, FFS!

        “Duncan stated that in Georgia, Polygraphs are done somewhat different than in Michigan.” Ya think?!

        “Duncan advised the undersigned [Garry Gray] that he and his supervisor who also witnessed the entire examination process, were so convinced that Hastings had involvement with these murders, that if he were to confess to him, his [ ] involvement, THEY ALREADY HAD A PLAN IN PLACE WHERE THEY WOULD HOLD HIM FOR THE OFFICERS IN MICHIGAN TO OBTAIN A WARRANT. He said they were that convinced . . . that Hastings has some involvement with the murders of the children.”

        So it’s ok to use a disgraced and incompetent MSP polygrapher’s exams to clear Busch and Greene in January 1977–that works–but you get to ignore a competent polygrapher’s exam of John Hastings?

        John probably didn’t draw that pencil drawing of a screaming boy, he probably didn’t kill Chris Busch. But he sure as hell was helping hunt for and run kids for a very active child porn and sex ring. He has information about the OCCK crimes. And in my opinion, so does at least one of his brothers. That is my firm belief and no, I will not share how I received this information. The cops were given this information two years ago. NO ONE ACTED ON IT.

        Again, it is not our jobs to dot all the “i’s and cross all the “t”s. But shouldn’t someone at the MSP have followed up on this work done by the Investigator Duncan and his supervisor at the GHP?!

  8. Speaking of evidence and conspiracies. If they completely ignored his polygraph results which these documents seem to very heavily imply, it begs the question. Did they really do anything with his swab they took as far as lab work? Or is that just pretend as well. Inquiring minds would like to know.

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