As discussed previously, this man, who had a number of tips called in on him to the OCCK task force when my brother was missing, was institutionalized as a young adult at the Menninger Psychiatric Clinic from 1960-1964. Doing the math, he wound up at this institution right about the time many young adults are headed to college.
https://wordpress.com/read/feeds/56938161/posts/3101954044
This photo must have been taken soon before that stint.
Despite his “good family” (big money, connections with the Gods at GM), and his death in 1989 at age 47, this man’s possible connection to the OCCK crimes must be investigated fully. The MSP will never do it, so who will?
Hey Cathy, Is this family related to the Fisher Building in Detroit ?
Yes.
The comments in the tip sheets about him going to FL were chilling in light of what John Doe wrote about a FL “incident”. I wish John Doe had given some kind of statement to police before he died.
I think he tried and the police blew him off.
Cathy, There is still a plaza at Opdyke and South Blvd. That is Bloomfield Twp. Back in the mid 1980’s there was a blue 4 door sedan that was obviously abandoned ie; 4 flat tires, covered in snow, etc.. I called the cops for months if not over a year and they did nothing.
This could be the other man that Doug Wilson saw sitting in the Pontiac when Tim was abducted? He said the man looked like John Wayne Gacy and the picture that you posted does resemble him. So unbelievable that there was so much scum running around Michigan in the 70’s and the police turned the other cheek.
Thanks for the posts Cathy, I am home with Covid and reading your posts takes my mind off things for a little while.
Jeremy
Oh get well, Jeremy!
The scum in Oakland County had money and power. I’m telling you, Birmingham, MI, was a hotbed. And it flourished, unchecked, because people like H. Lee Busch could pick up the phone and tell the B’ham PD to go fuck themselves. Every cop on at the B’ham PD knew about Chris Busch and if they had looked for even one minute at the big picture, they would have figured out what his daddy was up to. Frank Shelden could pick up the phone. And if a state or US senator was involved in any way, inquiry stopped right there.
Look at the address for Fisher’s “Interiors, Inc.” as listed on Tip No. 1029TK. 328 N. Woodward, Birmingham, MI. John McKinney’s art gallery was nearby. So was Josiah Tazelaar’s brother and sister-in-law’s home.
John Hastings lived one, more expensive, subdivision or two over in Bloomfield Village. Walking distance from H. Lee’s house where his pig of a son was found rotting in 1978. And walking distance from pedophile cop Richard McNamee’s house.
It is clear the Birmingham/Bloomfield Village area was the Cass Corridor of Oakland County when it came to child porn and pedophelia.
Hi Cathy,
The following doesn’t matter much since, no matter what, Fisher’s Interiors Inc. was still within about a square mile of Willem Tazelaar’s house, Hunter-Maple Pharmacy, Poppleton Park, McKinney’s gallery on Haynes, etc. But maybe knowing where Fisher’s shop was will trigger a helpful memory or idea from someone.
The 328 N. Woodward address for Fisher’s shop initially stunned me because it shows up on Mapquest as just north of Poppleton Park. Then I remembered that back then that strip was called Hunter, not Woodward.
I think Fisher’s shop was located on what is now called N. Old Woodward (formerly just Woodward), in that little valley a few blocks north of downtown Birmingham. It would’ve been on the east side, north of Oakland Ave, basically across from Booth Park. There was and is a strip of boutique shops and small professional offices there.
For whatever it’s worth, this reminded me that there used to be a pedestrian tunnel under Hunter, somewhere near Oakland Ave. or Poppleton Park.
Keep shining your light. We are with you.
I forgot to include brother Charles Busch’s house across from Poppleton Park on that list.
Yep. Corner of Mohegan and Oxford. Right across from the playground. Thanks, Beth.
Because I get fixed on Poppleton Park, Charles Busch’s house, my mother in law’s house, Hunter Maple and your house, I mapped the walking and driving distances between them all. Driving (and since my mother in law watched the car circle Poppleton Park. . .) from her house on Madison to Busch on Mohegan – 1 minute. From Busch home to HM Pharmacy (now Kroger) – 2 minutes. From the second block of Yorkshire to HM – 2 minutes. Mohegan to Yorkshire – 4 minutes.
Walking Madison to Mohegan – 4 minute. Mohegan to HM 11 minutes. Yorkshire to HM 6 minutes.
How close were McKinney’s gallery and Fisher’s business? Too close. Fisher’s location was an 8 minute walk and a 2 minute drive from HM. These locations are extremely close to each other.
I have also wondered how a cop afforded that neighborhood…. (I zillowed his address and it sold in 2019 for 725k.)
What really still stumps me is Hastings. He doesn’t strike me as this genius criminal mind, but he has never been arrested for anything. Outside of what Helen says, how does he fit in I wonder? Maybe he was paid to do certain things as he doesn’t seem super employable in the traditional sense. (Although I can’t say I know what his career has been outside of a cook I believe.)
Thought that right away about McNamee when I saw the address. Hastings is not so hard to figure out, especially if someone in law enforcement would take a serious look at him. Which they didn’t because of Helen Dagner, but more importantly, because roads would have lead to Chris Busch. B’ham PD got called off that investigation of Hastings in 1992. That’s when B’ham PD digs itself deeper in the cover up. Other stuff went down in 1992, too, and these fuckers almost lost control of the narrative then. It is so obvious to me: Hastings was a hanger-on, a loser, AND was a child hunter along with Busch, Greg Greene and Vince Gunnels. THAT’S what this cook did for real money. As the Georgia Bureau of Investigation polygrapher said a decade ago–Hastings was involved in these crimes. He was and you will never convince me otherwise. He knew McNamee, he knew Busch. He ran with the child predators and at a minimum has knowledge of the OCCK crimes. His family knows that, too, and have protected him.
Oh I agree he was involved somehow, it is just hard to know his role given most pedos just can’t stop themselves from attacking. Of course, who knows how many are running around that have never been caught for a single offense.
I know Patrick disagrees about Hastings, but has he had the opportunity to see the Atlanta polygraph results (or any of Hastings poly results)? I’m guessing not since any evidence seems to disappear in this case. But I know Cory doesn’t think he was involved either, did Cory try to follow up with Atlanta? I would think that would have been important to him given his involvement (I think) in getting the poly set up in the first place?
My dream: The new people in office find a way to talk to Gunnels, Hastings, Sloan, Lamborgine, etc. I know, a dream…
I apologize if I may have missed it and/or it’s actually obvious and I’m just not seeing it…but why does Cory NOT think Hastings was involved? He has to have seen the GBI notes and poly.
That just doesn’t make sense to me. Especially with Cory being one of the few with their head screwed on right.
Matt, it is entirely possible he did not see that document. How can anyone read the report of the GBI polygrapher and say this man “passed” a polygraph? They were ready to detain him for god’s sake while a warrant was obtained!!
Cathy;
I’m horribly disappointed after all of this time that Cory nor Marney have never provided an explanation over this matter. Or at the very least, acknowledge that they have read and are aware of the conclusion of GBI over Hastings polygraph and are perplexed by it. Instead it seems they are persistent and quick to explain that he passed his polygraph. Where’s the docs that backs up their claim?
To all about Hastings,
First, I was not privy to Hastings polygraph results due to being thrown off the task force shortly after the trip to Atlanta for speaking on the phone with Helen Dagner.
I was always a Detective that felt you never ever burn bridges with people suppling information.
MSP didn’t like me talking with Helen because she had their number.
Turns out she lied to generate interest on her website.
As far as Hastings, it was more about Helen’s poor credibility.
Cory
Hi Cory;
Thanks so much for responding. Base on those conclusions from GBI being discussed. There was something in that same area of the docs in regards to a DVD that was made that covers his polygraph results. Wondering if that is still accessible by anyone involved with the case? It may actually tell the story of why they came up with the conclusions they came up with and why they raised the red flags they did. I will make an assumption that no one has ever reviewed that DVD. I understand your frustrations with Helen Dagner but I sure wish you would have got back with me after we talked. I had no idea what really took place all of this time until Marney’s book came out. I’m so sorry for what happened.
I would have guessed this is what happened and that it was during one of the two times you got “kicked off” the team for “not being a team player,” which is code for “getting somewhere in this case.” I had no doubt the MSP buried the report from the GBI, laughed about it and put their feet up on the desk. Too bad their FOIA person blew it on this one. They threw the John Hastings information and files in that $11,000 FOIA response at least three times. The joke is on them. This is on you, Garry Gray. The person who said my Dad and I were stupid–had to be, because we are lawyers. He and Dave Robertson, son of the original file destroyer in this case, are the ones who made sure to tuck in photos of my brother’s dead body in the FOIA response. Nice touch.
No way these two men were going to let Helen Dagner get a “win.” They, like Jessica Cooper’s office, spent all their energy being petty and vindictive and fighting victims every. Step. Of. The. Way. And that’s not because we were such awful jerks. It’s because they have a lot to hide.
I will prepare a little overview of Mr. John Hastings. Now that we know the MSP threw in the towel on this case and is probably in full blown closing the ranks mode, I guess that $11,000 was kind of a good investment. Again, this last “Hastings” round is on Garry Gray. Completely. A review of the 1992 “investigation” is easy enough to do. Many of us have posted about it for 15 years.
There are at least four of us who have a lot of information and background on this man. And the names of the GBI officials involved in interrogating him and polygraphing him are right on the pages of the FOIA response. One of them might still work there. And they could provide suggestions for who could pick this up in Florida if that’s where he is now.
Helen blew it, but not as badly as Gray. As my retired police chief friend told me in 2006–a person can be crazy and still be right. Go figure. It’s not like a John Hastings was going to hang out with and talk about serial murder with someone who had healthy boundaries and perfect mental health. More tomorrow.
A person can be crazy and still be right.
And the MSP can be stupid and still be…awe hell, who are we kidding?…
Turns my stomach every time I read how they purposefully placed those pictures of your brother in the FOIA package. Sadly, standard bullshit from most in this case. Every turn, just more bullshit upon more bullshit.
Corrupt.
Appreciate the response, Cory.
Based on all that had since come out and taking into account all that you know, do you believe that there is a strong chance…perhaps even likely…that Hastings really did have some hand/association in and with the crime(s)? I know in your position, that you can only really go on facts that you know, but do you agree with GBI now? Have you had the opportunity to see the interview and review the polygraph yourself? Apologies if I’ve missed your answer to this stated elsewhere, since then.
Frustrating to hear about MSP removing you. So counterproductive and selfish. But as we know, that’s how they roll.
Sorry, I can’t turn my brain off. Has anyone considered that maybe the girls were for McNamee? Maybe they should do a DNA search of his house…
McNamee would take whatever he could get, girl or boy. That’s what I’ve been told.
I could be mis-remembering, but I thought part of the reason they thought suicide is because there wasn’t an obviously way into the house as things were locked. My guess is Busch let someone in, they killed him, locked all the doors to make it look like suicide, and ran out the garage. (Very easy to hit the button to shut the door and then run under it before it closes.) Also so interesting how the task force was notified so quickly. Could be as innocent as they saw the drawing and ligatures and thought “lets call the task force who will promptly lose everything”, or he was on the radar all along.
There was, of course, nothing innocent about it. First off, pedophile cop McNamee answers the wellness call and is in the home with Charles Busch for 20-30 minutes before back up arrives. Second, all of them knew they were fucked the minute they saw that bedroom. That’s why no forensic testing of the home was done concerning the OCCK case–no, we had to wait over 30 years for that. Third, H. Lee Busch wasn’t going to stand for any of that shit–one call and it all gets shut down. The ropes go missing despite the state lab worker saying “hold on to these.” The original drawing of the screaming child goes missing.
The cops don’t do shit to process that house. Patterson, Thompson, Robertson, Krease and H. Lee–they all knew they were fucked and they took steps to control the damage.
KP, that neighborhood was more modest than Busch and Hastings’ neighborhood. The house now has a large, contemporary addition. Most of the neighboring houses have retained their original footprint and appearance.
Jeremy, good observation about Fisher’s photo looking like the man Doug Wilson described sitting in the backed-in parked Pontiac.
Take another look at what John Doe wrote about the sketches of the suspects side by side in the paper.
Greetings. I am a life long resident of Michigan and live about 20 minutes from the King’s old house. Many of the cops, 991 dispatchers and corrections officers make about $100,00 plus grand a year in today’s dollars. If they put in over time, close to $200,000 a year is not unheard of. Many drive Porsche’s and Mercedes. I know one correction’s officer who is now retired and living at a resort he owns in the Carribean. This was accomplished through retirement with Michigan Corrections.
This is true. The amount of OT that cops made now and even more back then, is crazy. Staggering. Their base salary was essentially just turned into what amounted as a bonus for many. And a lot the of OT is “OT” and not exactly doing much. Coincidentally, much like the auto industry where people often made more in OT than their actual salary, and were able to do so year after year.
I wanted to start by saying Cathy is dead on point. Hastings no doubt knew Busch and very well possibly knew Mcnamee.
I’m not saying Mr.Williams dropped the ball with Hastings, but he was fixated with the pedophile ring and overlooked what was in his face. Corey was looking at individuals with prior convictions of pedophile activity . This is a terrible mistake. Listen if those two boys were not molested prior to post mortem, you must throw out Lamborghine, Busch, Sloan. Those guys would have molested those boys. Just because John Hastings didn’t have a criminal record doesn’t mean he isn’t guilty. In a matter of fact most people in their 20’s don’t have criminal records. I’ve personally done things in my 20’s that could have given me a record. Use your brains people. Look at the evidences. Look at the coincidences.
This killer lived within the radius of these kids. He knew the area well. He wouldn’t be driving an hour in the terrible Michigan elements looking for kids. This person was an opportunist and was close by . He knew the 7/11 where Kristine was. He knew Hunter Maple where Timmy was.
From what I’ve gathered Hastings is now in a Florida mental institution. He’s been in and out of them since the first the past 35 years . His family has his him. I’ve looked at each of the siblings social media platforms and not one thing mentioning John. I find this very strange . John himself has a Facebook page with no activity since 2013. Every person on his friends list are of woman that he has no idea who they are. This guy needs to be under a microscope and look into his last polygraph.
I believe Hastings is in Georgia. And I thought there was some evidence that the boys were molested given where hairs were found.
What I keep going back to is this…. anyone can read up about a crime and become very knowledgeable about it. However, how many people also check these boxes?
1. Lived near Busch and all the others
2. Had been investigated by the task force for the crimes
3. Looks suspicious on the polygraph
4. Looks like the Doug Wilson sketch
5. Is overheard basically confessing the crime (reference to Alpena Witness)
That’s what I can’t get over- you can’t just write off Helen because she was a bit crazy. The odds are astronomical that she could make this up and frame someone or whatever. Even removing the 5th point, there aren’t many people that align so well. So we can spend our tax dollars digging up Gremlins and such which they MSP probably knows will go nowhere. Or, the money could go toward talking to a living, breathing person that may actually lead somewhere. Their choice is obvious, you are only allowed to investigate to a certain point, then you have to stop. Appearances matter, results do not. (Because results could open up a big, scary, incriminating can of worms.)
EXACTLY.
And it was more than Helen “being crazy.” She got in the faces of the MSP goons assigned to babysit this case. A woman, no less. She’s crazy, I’m a bitter victim. Write us off. The case will continue to be investigated by authors and documentarians. It is SO OBVIOUS what went on here. Afraid of the words “cover up” or “conspiracy”? This wasn’t some brilliant scheme to make this go away. It was an awkward series of pathetic and clumsy actions taken by men in 1977 and 1978 who thought they knew better than anyone how to “make this all go away.”
I’ve given this a lot of thought over the past 18 years. When Helen Dagner’s account of 9 months of nightly coffees with Hastings as he discussed the Oakland County Child Killer first appeared on Todd Mathews Dreambook. There can’t be any dispute that were it not for Helen, the cases might have remained tucked away (or washed away in a catastrophic flood) before Wasser and Patrick Coffey had their conversation. It is also well known that Helen misrepresented information, twisted information, and outright lied at times. She artificially inflated her own website hits and extrapolated emails posting bits and pieces to seem like there were more people contacting her than really were. She used people and then burned them if there was any indication that they weren’t completely on board with her “John is the Only Killer” theory. She did all of this, I know, because I am one of her casualties. However, one thing is true: Helen’s core story NEVER changed. Even in the FOIA documents, the reports and dealings with Helen indicate her core account was as she described even 10 years later. So, why did she begin to fabricate and manipulate her information? Because she BELIEVED John was the killer and was willing to manipulate to make it so.
So, how does this make her any different, any less credible than the MSP? The MSP has misled, avoided, denied, name called, turned on their own and
burned bridges, destroyed, gaslighted. . .
That Cory Williams was kicked off because he dared to allow that Helen may actually be able to supply information then kept from the GBI polygraph results that very clearly indicate THEY believe Hastings was involved isn’t any different than Helen kicking people away who did not tow her line. They are two opposite forces desperately trying to make their story the only narrative and both stop forward movement – one intentionally.
A crazy person can still be right.
I’ve never posted a comment here before. This case haunts me. For a number of reasons but mostly because I raised my kids in Oakland County. I discovered something that chills me. There is a Facebook page called Bush Fine Arts and Design. They call themselves a book store but they have an eBay store and sell coins, clothes, toys, etc. Two things: the location of this store is in Birmingham, 328 North Old Woodward. Also, Josiah Tazelaar is on Facebook and guess where he worked – Busch Fine Arts and Design.
Thanks for this–everyone just happily flying under the radar in Birmingham, Michigan.
Tazelaar, Faxon, Fisher, multiple members of the Busch family, John McKinney, John Hastings. Family and friends protecting them. Police never touching them. It’s obscene.
Well that just sent chills through me.
Contact me Packsm@students.fscj.edu
Everell owned many homes.
1. 4590 Waldon Drive, Clarkston
2. 5775 Gilbert Lake Drive, Birmingham
3. 10624 Cedar Island Road, Union Lake
4. 2945 Woodslee, Royal Oak
3. Several properties on Burt Lake
4. Brown Street, Birmingham
5 a horse farm in Ocala, Florida
6. 661 Ayers, South Carolina
…And others
Thank you!
27800 Wellington, Farmington
Sheri-Lyn,
I can’t find any structure or property that may have once had a house on it that could possibly correspond with the address “4590 Waldon Drive, Clarkston.”
Are you sure about that address?
Waldon, once you get east of Clintonville Road, is wooded and undeveloped, even today. There are a couple of subdivisions that enter onto the north side of Waldon (the even number addresses, presumably), but none have Waldon as a street.
What source document placed any house belonging to Fisher on that road in Clarkston?
For you non Michiganders, these are very high end addresses.
Also, keep in mind Michigan cops make about $100,000 a year plus benefits. If they want over time, $200,000 is not unheard of. In Oakland County 911 operators frequently make more than the prosecutors.